Goodness, I wish I could just wrap my arms around him and give him a huge hug. He is simply precious. And what a wonderful human companion strong pig has.
You are right Missy, the tears came after reading his plight.
Being rescued and taken care of instead of swimming for ages and then being shot by those f--k--s. I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish.....
This is such a glorious story with such a happy ending.
Fan, you are such a beautiful and special human being.

Peace for all animals!

Posted by: Judith | July 8, 2008 08:16 PM

The fact that a pig struggles for survival makes it no more "intelligent" than algae.

Posted by: jay | July 8, 2008 10:14 PM

Because a pig used its natural instincts to survive, it can be deemed an intelligent being? I'm just curious about how this pig obtained human-like qualities.

Posted by: Greg | July 9, 2008 03:15 AM

Nice to hear that there are some truly good people in the world. Very sad (but not surprising) that the US has no similar story to report from the midwest....

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 9, 2008 08:56 AM

Breen, some of your comments are worth a read or two just for arguement sake BUT most are just down right stupid!! Hooray for Fan and Strong Pig, they are heroes!!

Posted by: Carla | July 9, 2008 11:46 AM

Grrrr Pigs have a higher IQ then the typical 3 yr old you retards. They would most likely beat you at any IQ test, considering your comments.
And Jay, people fatten too!!! Not just pigs you retard (lower IQ then a 3 yr old??)
Maybe we should eat human fatties instead and save taxpayers money when the roly polys start getting heart disease & diabetes.

Posted by: Joanna | July 9, 2008 05:07 PM

Joanna, Beautifully said.

Peace for all animals!

Posted by: Judith | July 9, 2008 07:43 PM

One person can make a difference in the world. Maybe Mr. Fan's kind actions will be a source of inspirtion to the people around him, and maybe they will perform a simple act of kindness, and the cycle will go on and on and on.

Posted by: Kelley | July 9, 2008 07:49 PM

This is one of the most uplifting stories I've heard in a while. Good to hear Strong Pig recieved a loving home rather than ending up as someone's dinner. Spending time with animals that are traditionally farmed can be a real eye-opener for people who think animals don't feel or think much. Too bad my parents won't let me be vegetarian. I was threatened I'd be sent to an eating disorders clinic if I cut meat completely from my diet. Until I live on my own, I eat vegetarian in my personal life and have the traditional family dinner.

Posted by: Elizabeth | July 9, 2008 09:17 PM

Joanna,

Green made the comment about pigs intelligence, not me. Where do you get off with pigs having an IQ > than a 3 yr old? My 3 yr old can talk, solve puzzles, ride a bike wash himself, and ski to name a few. You guys must be studying some amazing pigs. Anyway, why cant you just have a normal conversation without getting so mad and defensive? It speaks volumes for your confidence in your cause - "weak point, shout louder".

Posted by: jay | July 9, 2008 10:11 PM

hi joanna, could you provide the scientific source of such a claim re: pig IQ.
It's quite easy to regurgitate some goveg "facts" but please back them up if you are going to do so. It would be nice if goveg and the like provided verifiable references, then you wouldn't have to.

Posted by: rojo | July 9, 2008 10:14 PM

This pig would have served a better purpose being slaughtered and fed to people who were starving in that devistated area in China.
Antigone, stop taking cheap shots at the people in the mid-west floods. They have suufered enough.

Posted by: Kurt K | July 10, 2008 09:15 AM

Kurt K: Perhaps deservedly so. Karma.....

I'm really sorry that my comments offend your sensibilities so much. Here's an idea--why don't you trade places with a pig in a slaughterhouse for a day or two?? You can endure what he does and I'll set him up in front of a computer and email him some really nasty stuff--maybe I'll call him some names, make some specieist comments, that kind of thing. If, at the end of the day, you still think comments are the most horrible things to be endured, then you can remain in the slaughterhouse until you become hotdogs for your fellow carnivores. Deal?

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 10, 2008 12:40 PM

Jay, If you turned your three year old loose in the wild how long do you think he/she could survive? A pig would make use of it's intelligence and figure out how to survive. That's why feral pigs are such a problem in some areas.

BTW Joanna is not joanna. I'm taking joanna off the blog.

Posted by: joanna | July 10, 2008 01:35 PM

Kurt, your playing in that pile of shit with Cochran, aren't you? You absolutely disgust me by what you said about strong pig. He won his battle fair and square with his smarts to stay alive. He succeeded. What is wrong with people like you? Were you abused as a child taught to hate by your parents and your environment? You are a very sick and hateful person. But I knew that already when you started speaking of your love for that monster Dick Cheney!
I knew then just how fucked up you are. You lack love in your life and you prefer to take your hate out on the innocent.
You are a sad and scary person.
Love and Peace!

Peace for all animals!

Posted by: Judith | July 10, 2008 01:58 PM

this KurtK dude is totally devoid of sentimental empathy - nor a shred of mercy in that human form physique of his.. I'll bet if he ever was stuck in some bog or quick sand or even a deep pit and some kind dog came to his aid or alerted people to come and help him.. he'd be totally ungrateful at the dog and after being rescued he'd say.. 'why.. this dog would be better off 'slaughtered and fed to people starving in that devastated area'.. what is the matter with this dude?? Hasn't he ever come across the notion of MERCY? for the mere sake of being merciful of sparing someone or some creatures life?? yes.. for that simple reason.. nah.. in his case.. I guess v. much so not.. he's prob going around zealously swatting anything that comes across his path be it flies, bees or butterflies.. 'Pesks'! to mutters to himself.. you should practice bieng merciful KK.. you will see.. it's actually a v. good and commendable act!

Posted by: yf | July 10, 2008 03:00 PM

joanna,

Survival is not equivalent to intelligence. Insects are the best survivors of all but that does not mean they are equally intelligent.

I'm not sure what your last comment means - probably my diminutive intelligence.

Posted by: jay | July 10, 2008 03:42 PM

If you would just judge KK's comment on pure merit, instead of knee jerk sentimentality I think you would see his point. If slaughtering that pig could sustain a family for a week, until relief arrived, would that not be justified?

Posted by: jay | July 10, 2008 04:39 PM

Jay you are an idiot! Have you ever heard of compassion? I'm guessing not. So you're telling us that even after this pig survived for 36 days without food you it would be your pleasure just to kill him? People like you disgust me.

Posted by: wowzer | July 10, 2008 05:04 PM

Wowzer,

If your family was starving and came upon a pig I wonder what you would do? I think I know.

Posted by: jay | July 10, 2008 05:48 PM

Wow, you all seem to have a real knack for calling people horrible names. That doesn't earn respect in my book. Pigs are livestock- bred to be consumed. You can't just release a domestic pig into the wild. So it's either keep it in human care or stop breeding them until their extinction. Now, while pigs are bred to be eaten, that gives us no right to abuse them in any way with bad living conditions or poor slaughter methods. I believe in changing these; but I do not believe in stopping all human consumption of meat. That is too radical and you can't make the whole world adopt this lifestyle. However, some animal's resilience proves that they are more than the common farm animal. Strong pig is an example. This is a wonderful story, indeed.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 10, 2008 06:14 PM

Jay, You are such a sad person.
Why don't you go to a torture board or someplace and just leave us alone. We love and respect animals, thats who we are. Just be good and go somewhere where you are wanted.
Thank you. PIGS RULE!!!!!

Peace for all animals!

Posted by: Judith | July 10, 2008 06:27 PM

Wow! I didn't think that comment would cause such a stink! I think many of you read to much into that one. Jay understood what I was trying to say. I would kill a hundred pigs to save one person.
I think its great how all of you can judge a person's character by the posts on a blog. Its funny how you claim I have no compassion, while you call me names and suggest that I lack mercy.
I don't want to see animals suffer, but I also don't want to see humans suffer. I think its great that people are fighting animal abuse, I really do. However, when it starts to become an obsession and people start to think of animals before humans, it has gone far enough!
My advise is to think about my comments a little more before you respond.

Ted Nuggent rules!

Posted by: Kurt K | July 10, 2008 07:58 PM

Jay, If you Haven't already noticed Your losing this battle, and making pathetic excuses for it, Hey Everyone Let kill Jay and feed him to earthquake Surviors after he's Been through what strong pig Survived, Oh and Jay, When You where Born, you went through surgery to remove your heart AND your brain, But you wouldn't know because you have no feelings, oh and Guess what Your getting Told off by a compassionite (awesome) 12yr old, Now what does that make you think, oh and Elizabeth, My parents wouldn't let me go Veg, Just give them time and facts, prep yourself. It worked for me.

Posted by: Madison Luvs Animals | July 10, 2008 08:46 PM

To slaughter an animal unnecessarily is wrong. To deny that pigs are intelligent creatures is crazy and equally wrong. It is well known that pigs are smarter than dogs and horses.

Posted by: vegancoin | July 10, 2008 10:47 PM

Well, he wouldn't feed me for a week. I don't eat animals--I would find something else to eat.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 10, 2008 11:01 PM

You come to a PETA website and take the time to read the posts and post negative comments. There must be something, anything, you could do with your time better than that. On another note, the story is very heartwarming and thank you for sharing.

Posted by: pam | July 11, 2008 06:59 AM

I just received some fantastic news. 69 Pigs were rescued on a levee in the Midwest and are now in route to The Farm Sanctuary in New York!!!!!YEA!!!!! People all over the country are calling to adopt these precious souls...
YEA!!!!!

Peace for all animals!!!!!

Posted by: Judith | July 11, 2008 12:17 PM

Great. Pigs are smart. We get it. You can't say that they are smarter than dogs and horses, though. If you must, find a reputable source. Pigs, horses, dogs, wombats, worms, they're all SMART. Not a big deal. Piggy may be smarter than Rover, but Rover is not as smart as Nickers, but Nickers is smarter than Piggy. It does not always go Pig-dog-horse. And if eating animals was so cruel and wrong, I don't see why meat was made poisonous for human consumption. There are far more omnivors in this world than carnivors or herbivors; so eating meat is simply nature's way. All creatures are not on an equal plain. It is a hierarchy. You don't see a lion munching on some grass with the antelopes and mice. Though humans should not abuse our power, you cannot say that we do not deserve to eat meat. That is what being on top of the food chain is about. Not to abuse animals...that is different. But we may eat them. If this is baffling to you, a biology class would do you good.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 11, 2008 02:22 PM

Pam, Joanna, Wowzer, Judith, Madison et al. ,

If you took the time to read the posts you would find they are not intented to be negative, just to show the flaw in the logic.

1) The fact a pig struggles for survival does not equal intelligence - all living things (animals and plants) struggle for survival regardless of intellect.
2) When 100 000 people die from a natural disaster any resource available should be used to preserve life.

Neither of these points gives any evidence to a lack of mercy or compassion. I would argue that writing an article about a pig that survives amid such disaster shows lack of compassion and tact.

Posted by: jay | July 11, 2008 02:48 PM

There still is a little light at the end of the tunnel, hey Judith!! Thanks for sharing that info!!

Posted by: Carla | July 11, 2008 03:53 PM

Judith, are you going to get one?

Posted by: Kurt K | July 11, 2008 04:06 PM

Jay's comment "...writing an article about a pig that survives amid such disaster shows lack of compassion and tact."
my comment: yes it was a terrible disaster and I htink you may agree with me the earthquake disaster received global, international practically round the clock coverage.. if not days, then weeks and months.. depending on your disposition.. people felt sorrowful or sad at the terrible loss of so many human lives.. whilst in turn coudl be relieved or happy to learn another perosn or child was rescued alive from the debris.. over many many days under rubble.. the human spirit is resilient (so was this pig!) this particular case (after all this IS an animal rights/welfare sight).. was about a pig who survived.. and rightly so was spared his life.. Maybe you'll also agree with me that animals rights issues get very little coverage on mainstream news/TV or elsewhere.. thus people turn to AR organizations or sites such as this.. I dont' think it was 'insensitive' for Peta to bring up the matter of this spitited plucky pig who steadfastly survived after so many days buried under rubble.. all creatures.. yes humans and animals struggle or will struggle given the chioce between life and death!! we are all similar in that respect!! so why shouldnt this pig get a little bit of 'air time'?
It's a heartwarming tale anyway.. regardless.. because it also shows a man's compassion for an animal..

Posted by: bet | July 11, 2008 05:58 PM

Jay: If my family was starving, we might just eat you. What does that prove?? Desperate people do desperate things, but if everyone lived their lives as though they were in dire straits, I think a lot of crimes would be committed.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 11, 2008 06:25 PM

Kurt, What we do is adopt these precious souls but they live at the Sanctuary. Farm Sanctuary takes so much out of an account we have open for them. We take care of 2 pigs and 2 cows and 3 horses. The horses are at Horse Haven. We do not have enough room at our home for all of them. But we visit twice a year.
Please go to Farm Sanctuary.org
and read all about the rescue!

Peace for all animals!

Posted by: Judith | July 11, 2008 07:27 PM

Antigone, brilliant retort to Kurt K-(July 10 -10:40PM) I wish he'd take you up on that deal!

Posted by: lynda downie | July 12, 2008 12:27 AM

S.Q. I've studied some biology and your whole idea of 'hierarchy' isn't consistent with the Darwinian view of nature. We're all animals, S.Q. (human and non-human).

Posted by: lynda downie | July 12, 2008 12:42 AM

Antigone 1000,

You should follow the plot. I was critised for having no mercy or compassion for defending a point by k kurt on eating animals during a disaster. The argument was that considering eating this specific pig, which survived, in order to stave off starvation was heartless. As to your comment about finding something else to eat, you wouldnt have. Many Chinese didnt find anything to eat and died.

Considering the ethics of some people on this blog I do not doubt you would eat me instead of this pig.

Posted by: jay | July 12, 2008 11:17 PM

Jay
It's been known for some time now that pigs are extremely intelligent- at the cognitive level of a normal 3 yr old human child.
Dr. Stanley Curtis( former professor of dairy and animal science at Penn State, prof of animal science at University of Illinois, and Oregon State University in conjunction with Dr. Candace Croney), Dr. Donald Broom (Cambridge University) and Dr. Salvatore Cullari (dept. zoology Lebanon Valley College)are among the animal science researchers who've studied pigs and made these claims for their cognitive abilities.

Posted by: lynda downie | July 14, 2008 12:10 AM

I'm so tired of hearing that people are choosing animals over humans. Such an idiotic comment shows you have no understanding of what AR stands for. Those who support AR believe that EVERY being has an inherent value and a right to live his/her life in peace. It DOES not mean animals and humans have the SAME rights (e.g., animals won't need to vote), nor does it mean that either one is superior to the other. It means that we recognize the inherent value in animals (as we currently do for humans) and stop disregarding their right to a life unmolested by human cruelty.
In some cases where I have a choice, I might choose an animal over a human, but how often do such cases arise now, where a human must choose between one human and another??? If anyone were forced to choose between saving a loved one or a stranger, they would choose the loved one and no one would question it. Why question it, then, if the loved one happens to be an animal and the stranger a human???

Those humans who feel threatened by such a philosophy probably need pyschological help to overcome their need to subordinate others.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 14, 2008 10:11 AM

Antigone,
I understand what you are saying! If you loved your dog and you had to choose between its life and a strangers life, given the circumstance, you would choose your dogs! Is this correct?
If that is the case, then I see no point of even talking to you on this anymore. Your priorities are so fucked up, I don't think anything I can say in the future will taken seriously. Choosing an animal, that has no concept of what life really is, over a person who fully understands what death is.
God help you!

Posted by: Kurt K | July 14, 2008 12:32 PM

all humans and animals share the SAME basic instinct... ie.. SURVIVAL, eat, sleep, rest, play, hunt, companionship, fight or flight, procreate.. need I go on.. what gives the very self opinionated and always pro-human KK the notion that an animal has quote no 'concept of what life really is'.. for his information.. and he needs enlightening on this very most basic fact - animals share the SAME basic needs and concerns as humans.. SURVIVAL and the little simple pleasures it seeks or enjoys in life.. as you a human seek to fulfill your own human wants or desires and the pleasures of your life.. nothing no creature I feel shoudl be here on planet earth to SUFFER!!! .. that's why I find it so LOATHESOME when people feel animals have no reason to exist or live to enjoy life for it's own wants and simply are here to suffer in silence and then die a horrid death in order to provide all for humans wants and needs .. WHAT absolute WODGE BALDERDASH! and TROLLOP!!!
can't this KK ever make a comment without arousing indignation due to his relentless anti-animal comments and causing people to feel irate and have to counter reply like myself to rectify his perpetual ill thoughts and nonsensical comments .. ??

Posted by: bet | July 14, 2008 04:57 PM

Kurt K: Your argument is equivalent to saying that, as a white person, it would be wrong of me to choose the life of a black person over a white person. Guess what??? The fact that you happen to be human means absolutely nothing to me, just like the color of your skin means nothing. Either I have a relationship with you or I do not. You would betray a friend because of his species. That is equivalent to betraying a friend because of his skin color. I think it is YOUR priorities that are fucked up.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 14, 2008 07:30 PM

Jay: Don't get all full of yourself and think we're all dying to eat you. Your arteries are probably clogged and you're probably more fat than protein. Trust me--eating you would have to be a last resort, definitely not a preference.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 14, 2008 07:55 PM

Kurt K: If you don't think animals understand what death is, spend some time in a slaughterhouse. Trust me, they get it.

Besides--by your argument, autistic children, people in comas, some retarded children, and alzheimer victims don't stand a chance. (sigh) Well, okay, they're your rules......

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 14, 2008 07:58 PM

Bet/Antigone
I tell you what, go live with your animals in the wild. Your arguments make it seem like animals live in a Disney film.
Antigone, I don't think comparing a person with autism to a chicken is fair or remotely close. Furthermore, why bring in the race card on this? I don't view a black person as a different species and certainly wouldn't allow a human to be killed in front of my animal "friends"!
Don't you understand that pets stick around because you feed them?
And since when have I ever been anti-animal? I believe I am more pro-human!
I stated many times that I would like to see cruelty towards animals stop or be brought to a minimmum. I think the fur industry is wrong, I think slaughterhouses need to restructure their processes and I certainly don't like it when people are irresponsible towards their pets.
It just annoys me when people put animals on par with humans. That is basically my only beef with you guys!

Posted by: Kurt K | July 15, 2008 01:33 PM

Kurt K: All you have to fall back on is species. PERIOD. That is like a white person calling a black person inferior because of RACE. You can't use intelligence as a distinguishing factor because there are some animals (chimps, e.g.) smarter than some humans (a retarded person, e.g.). So you have no basis for your belief that you are superior other than SPECIES, which is no more of a valid distinguishing characteristic than RACE.

My pain and suffering is greater to me than yours is to me, just as an animal's pain and suffering is more important to him than yours is to him. ALL suffering is equal from the perspective of the sufferer. Just because I CARE more about MY suffering than I care about YOURS, does not make your suffering any less acute to YOU. So it is with animals. You value based on species. That is a prejudiced and outdated mindset.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 15, 2008 06:28 PM

Yes Kurt, you've made it very clear many times that you're offended by the comparison between humans and animals.
And as I've asked you before, why is that?

Posted by: lynda downie | July 15, 2008 09:36 PM

Aaawww! This story was so cute!

Posted by: Zeta | July 16, 2008 07:53 AM

pets stick around because you feed them..

(here we go again).. I have a pet dog.. if I was only appreciated simply becasue I fed him. then I guess he would just toddle off after mealtimes and do as he wished with no other cuase for concern except for when his next meal time woudl be .. I fancy this KK doesn't own a dog at all.. thus he has never experienced a dog galloping back to him simply becuase it chose to .. not because you had some tidbit in your hand.. or prefering to be in a room where you were in for your companionship rather than just sulking off to be on it own in some ohter room.. wagging it's tail furiously simply because it hasn't seen you for a while and is 'super' happy just to see you.. yes.. you may be the hand to feed him/it or in your case. most prob not.. but they also appreciate you for who you are.. that you treat them kindly and hey guess what.. they actually do like your human company .. at least your pet dog would not say hurtful things to you or 'stab you in the back when you least expected it.. or any ohter nasty surprises that I'm afraid and sad to say humans are so very capable of doing to other humans..

Posted by: bet | July 16, 2008 02:25 PM

Lynda downie,

No hierarchy? So bears, lions, tigers, and humans and mice should all live in happy love land eating salads? Reality is, no matter what theories say, when you look at nature and animal behavior, life is a food chain. That's the truth. Get your head out of the clouds.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 16, 2008 06:39 PM

antigone1000-- you are right on. :)

Posted by: kristina ann | July 17, 2008 03:32 AM

SQ,

Hi there ;)

Sorry to speak for Lynda, and I hope she does not mind, but she's right. We are all animals.

As for your point, that is a debate over moral sense and adaptabiltiy. Lions and tigers are obligate carnivores, and cannot survive on a vegetarian diet.

Humans do well on a vegetarian diet, and more importantly, we have an astoundingly good grasp on nutrition and preventative medicine.

No other animal on Earth could ever rival our nutritionoal knowledge. We also have more understanding of suffering.

Obviously a bear has no ability to understand mortality. Other animals don't have the ability to put themselves inside the head of another.

That kind of empathy is unique to humans, and we should try using it once in a while.

;) Peace.

Posted by: Maya, CVT | July 17, 2008 12:25 PM

Maya,

I understand that humans are unique in that we have a higher sense of morality than other animals. However, you have to note that we are designed to be omnivores. The shape of our jaws, teeth, and our ability to perform Gluconeogenesis (extracting carbs from meat) says we are not natural herbivors. Not saying that we can't be vegetarians, but that there is no proof that we should not eat meat. Just because humans are "more advanced" does not mean that we have to stop the basic insticts we are born with. We are animals; and so we have evrey right to eat meat as a crow, a bear, or racoon would.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 17, 2008 02:41 PM

Hi SQ!

I understand and respect what you're saying. I just want to point out that we usually speak about what's "natural" only when it's convenient for us.

Somewhere in PETA's FAQs (I'd have to poke around to find it) they clearly state that they have no objection to native peoples who live off the land, killing animals for food.

But you and I are hardly there, are we? If we want to discuss intsinct, do raccoons surf the internet? Do crows get pacemakers when their hearts give out?

What about bears - where is the bear Sephora so they can lather on lipstick when spending a night in Manhattan? Good lord, we live in a totally artificial world.

Yet when it comes to morality, we are suddenly wild beasts, drooling over and craving bloody flesh. Let's get real, meat animals are treated worse than almost any creature out there. They are denied the most basic physical comfort, and are tortured every minute.

Suddenly, when we are asked to show a little kindness, we are beasts roaming the planet.

I will point out, SQ, that if everyone in America ate vegetarian just 3 or 4 times a week, it would save millions more than just a handful of people eating vegetarian all the time.

So as far as I'm concerned, get 10 or so of your friends and family to try vegetarian 4 times a week. All will be healthier.

Most importantly, cows, chickens, pigs etc will not be kept in tiny enclosures and treated like pond scum. They deserve at least some reprieve from how they are treated.

ps Please, if you have time, read this short blog from a butcher / cook who prepares meat.

(He was a food network contestant)

http://www.offalgood.com/site/blog/resources/this-is-cheap-meat/

Posted by: Maya, CVT | July 17, 2008 05:51 PM

S.Q.: Omnivore means you CAN eat meat, not that it's best for you. I suppose God made us that way in the event that we were stranded with nothing to eat but flesh. However, on a given day, that is not the case and we have access to plenty of non-flesh food products. Since we do not NEED meat to live and since there is an unacceptable amount of cruelty and suffering involved in eating it, and since (as you point out, although I'm not sure I agree)we have a higher sense of morality, we really need to stop eating meat, not so much for US (humans) but for THEM (animals). I know, I know--an unselfish act might be hard for you to stomach, but just think about it.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 18, 2008 10:42 AM

Maya,

Thank you for the info. I always appreciate how kind you are in your responses. It shows you do not think all omnivores are terrible people. I do have some very good vegan friends, and some of the food they make for me is delicious. I do enjoy trying out different vegan restaurants with them. But as it is my personal choice, I decide to stay an omnivore. I do want slaughter methods changed in favor of the animals' comfort and well-being, but I am not in favor of stopping all human consumption of meat.

Antigone,

Your response is probably going to be rude and unhelpful, as expected. So I won't bother reading it. Have a good day.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 18, 2008 01:38 PM

S.Q When I skimmed your comment and saw "It's a hierarchy. Not all animals are on the same plain...Top..chain" I assumed that you were referring to "the great chain of being" that puts humans at the top of a hierarchic order of all nature, which is a misinterpretation of evolution. (Mixing my 'chain' metaphors)
After a re-read, of course I agree that food is recycled through nature. But I disagree that it justifies humans killing animals when there are non-cruel alternatives.

Posted by: lynda downie | July 18, 2008 04:06 PM

S.Q.: My comments are only helpful if (i) you get them and (ii) you are actually here to learn something. Since you don't meet either criteria, I think you are wise to skip my responses.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 18, 2008 07:08 PM

Lynda,

Of course I agree that humans should use methods that are the least cruel possible when dealing with animals. I just don't think "total animal liberation" is logical or right.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 18, 2008 08:25 PM

Uhhhhh....... believe me if you guys were starving you would eat each other, and it Strong Pig was with you you would have eaten him before anyone else. You may not like it but it's true. As far as I know, anything that lives (and isn't a plant, of course) will go to almost any lenght to survive. Anyway I am happy to hear that someone adopted Strong Pig.

P. S. Oh look we have more life stories being made up here! In case you don't know, that's when someone says something like "You probably grew up getting raped by your uncle and beaten by your parents and that's why you're so bitter"

Posted by: Karen | July 19, 2008 10:28 AM

Thanks S.Q.! ;)

Of course "omnivores" are not evil. That's silly. If that were true, I'd be at least as evil for driving a car and systematically killing off endangered polar bears.

Show me a saint, and I'll show you someone who is really living inside a glass house.

Each day we make choices, and what we put in our bodies is one of those personal choices that must be determined by the individual.

The more respect we show towards those around us, the more respect we are giving our bodies. It's a balance that has given me optimal health, and I love to hear that folks like you are willing to try vegan food!

Posted by: Maya, C.V.T. | July 20, 2008 06:32 PM

Antigone,

Your comments probably have helpful information (yes, I decided to read your comment) but the way you phrase them makes them degrading and rude. I'm assure you I will listen if you acted more fair and grown up. Spitting insults and slander does not command anyone's respect in my book. At least I try to be fair in what I say, something you seem to be unable to grasp. You claim to be compassionate, but until you show respect to your fellow humans (as they show to you) you are nothing of the sort. I hope you consider this. Thank you.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 21, 2008 01:29 PM

S.Q.: I have no respect for those humans who show no respect to animals. Don't cry about people disrespecting you while you continually disrespect animals. How does it feel??

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 21, 2008 06:57 PM

Antigone,

Have I ever said that I disrespect animals? No. I said that I want slaughter methods changed in favor of the animals' comfort and well-being. I don't really see how that is disrespecting animals. Oh, wait, I said that is was my personal choice to be an omnivore. I guess personal choice and freedom is disrespect. Oh, and as well, I enjoy how I try to be fair and respect your opinions, but you just pull out slander and insults. How old are you? Ten? I don't think you've ever met me, so how can you label me? I have three wonderful dogs and a cat, and I treat them with great respect. I volunteer at my local animal shelter and treat the animals there with great respect. I treat my vegan friends with respect; they have a right to their own beliefs and lifestyle. I buy free range meat, eggs, and dairy, because I want to reduce the suffering of farm animals. And I treat you with respect, Antigone, because you also have the right to your own beliefs and lifestyle. But you do not have the right to insult and degrade people simply because of the what they choose to eat, or expressing their own opinions. You are not better than me, and I am not better than you. Although judging from our comments, maybe you ought to rethink how you treat other people. I did not insult or judge you. Why don't you try kindness for a change? (You could learn from Maya).

Posted by: S.Q. | July 22, 2008 02:42 PM

S.Q.: Murdering animals because you like the taste is not my idea of respect. And I absolutely do not think eating meat is a personal choice. Your right to your choices ends when you negatively impact someone else's rights. There is nothing respectful in exploiting animals. Of course you like Maya because she tells you it is okay to exploit animals. I won't tell you that.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 22, 2008 08:38 PM

LOL SQ, don't bother. Just ignore Antigone, who obviously has mental health issues. Would we argue with a psychopath? No, it would be a waste of time.

I suggest you ignore this poor chap, who can't even spell things correctly. We won't learn much from Antigone.

Posted by: Maya, CVT | July 23, 2008 11:29 AM

Antigone, we just like Maya because she is not anti-human like you seem to be! Your bigotry knows no bounds. You hate me because of my lifestyle and you freely admit that.
To bad there isn't a National Socialist Party in America you can join. You'd fit right in! Of course you would have to shave your head though!

Posted by: Kurt K | July 23, 2008 01:00 PM

Alright Maya, I will take your advice, but one more word to Antigone.

Have you ever considered the millions of insects and small animals are killed every year from growing vegetables?

"Moreover, even if the relative number of animals killed were the morally decisive issue, veganism might not be the most ethical solution. In 2001, S. L. Davis of the Department of Animal Sciences at Oregon State University, Corvallis, wrote a paper claiming that the diet most likely to result in the deaths of the fewest animals would be beef, lamb, and dairy — not vegan. Davis found a study that measured mouse population density per hectare in grain fields both before and after harvest and estimated a harvest casualty rate of ten mice per hectare. Then, he multiplied that figure by 120 million hectares of farmland in the U.S.; meaning that 1.2 billion mice would die each year in food production if America became a wholly vegan country. Next, he estimated the number of animals that would be killed if half of our fields were dedicated to raising grass eating forage animals (cows, calves, sheep, lambs, etc.) from which to obtain meat. He found that there would Be 300,000 fewer animal deaths (.9 billion) annually from such an omnivorous diet than the number of deaths (1.2 billion mice) that would be caused from a universal vegan diet."

How many lives have you negatively impacted, Antigone?

Posted by: S.Q. | July 23, 2008 01:49 PM

S.Q.: I don't forego doing something simply because I cannot do it perfectly. However, to the extent that I CAN control what I do, I do the very best I can to have no negative impact on animals in my daily life. Most of us simply do nothing. We think the tiniest thing we do is significant for animals. Like when you talk about your pets. Treating your pets well does not make you an "animal-lover" any more than treating your children well makes you a humanitarian.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 23, 2008 07:18 PM

Kurt K: I am not anti-human. I think very highly of some humans, you just happen not to be one of them. If you want to stop being anti-animal, I might like you better. If not, don't expect to ever gain my friendship or respect AND stop complaining about it.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 23, 2008 07:21 PM

S.Q. What about the animals and their habitat that would be razed for the pasture for these animals? Many animals need forested areas. Creating pasture land costs lives, too.
And don't you think calling Antigone a 10 yr old is an insult?
Kurt, what bigotry are you accusing Antigone of? (your bigotry knows no bounds) -huh?
And Maya, I do respect you, but implying Antigone is a psychopath is unfair.
Personally, I enjoy Antigone's posts and have learned from them. Honestly, if I were still eating animals when I knew it caused them pain and death, I wouldn't have respect for myself. I wouldn't be insulted by Antigone's words.
If Antigone is wrong for not respecting animal abusers, then how can we justify disrespecting child abusers, rapists, etc? They're humans, too.

Posted by: lynda downie | July 24, 2008 12:28 AM

Hi Lynda?

You said it perfectly. Antigone treats people here like animal abusers. SQ and I have been spoken to in an extremely disrespectful manner.

I'm an extremely kind person, but I'm not a fucking doormat. If Antigone wants to call a truce, then fine.

To me a truce would mean that Antigone can still disagree with me, but in a respectful way. Maybe you can pass on what that word means, because you certainly understand it.

Otherwise, I will assume Antigone is mentally ill, and I will not respond any more. It's the best thing to do with people who can't control themselves.

Posted by: Maya, C.V.T. | July 24, 2008 02:28 PM

Antigone,

Just pointing out a fact to the contrary. I dislike it when people say I am evil and terrible when in fact no one can be 100% compassionate. I try my best, and it is an insult when people like you try to degrade my efforts. Enough said.

Lynda,

Antigone may not like my lifestyle, but he should respect my opinions, even if they differ from his own. He doesn't have to like me, but when I speak my mind, if he chooses to disagree, he should at least do so in a respectful manner. Disagreeing and insulting are two different things. Wouldn't you agree with that? (And after being degraded and treated with no respect, I think it's not a crime if I call him immature).

Posted by: S.Q. | July 24, 2008 04:46 PM

Ok, that's fair, Maya. You have to be true to yourself. I know that you show great patience with meat eaters-gently persuading them to consider vegetarianism. And it's your right to see Antigone as you do.
For my part, I see Antigone as one who speaks directly in defense of animals without the usual social formality that makes the message more palatable. Antigone shows zero tolerance for any animal abuse (including using their bodies for food) without compromise.
The animals we are fighting for deserve our best voices-persuasion and direct opposition to their abuse.

Posted by: lynda downie | July 24, 2008 04:49 PM

S.Q.: When you get some spare time, read up on the classics. Antigone, like myself, was a woman. And, no, I don't respect any lifestyle that condones mistreatment of animals. Sorry. I'm sure pedophiles think I should respect their lifestyles, as well, but I have standards.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 24, 2008 07:50 PM

Maya: I have no interest in calling a truce. I stand by all I have said to you. You try to portray yourself as something you are not and you carelessly spread lies about people for whom I have great respect. If you lie again, I will correct you again.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 24, 2008 07:54 PM

Thank you Lynda, you're my friend and I'd hate to lose that! In any case, you're a very peaceful, centered person!

Posted by: Maya, CVT | July 25, 2008 05:24 PM

Antigone,

I'm sorry, but I can't say I know the genders of all ancient dieties. Apologies for mistaking you. I have to wonder why you keep coming here when you obviously hate me so much. I wouldn't think you'd waste your time on those filthy animal hating omnivores that are polluting the planet. But I suppose you are like your name: "unbending."

PS: Pedophilia is not a 'lifestyle' per se, it is a crime. Just as a rapist's lifestyle is not 'sexual assault.'

I come here to read, think about issues, and write my opinion. No one's opinion is wrong, they are simply different. I'm sorry we don't agree, and I'm sorry you feel so bitterly about our conflicting points of view. As a wise man once said, "Don't judge a man until you've walked two moons in his moccasins." So I will not judge you. That's the end of it. Have a good day, Antigone. Thank you for your point of view. I have seriously considered it. Thank you.

Posted by: S.Q. | July 25, 2008 06:30 PM

Lynda,

Antigone does not show "zero tolerance" to animal abuse of any kind. As a direct result of every meal she takes animals die - from tilling the soil to cutting down forests for arible land. She just cant see the middle ground. This is not never never land. It is only in the first world that conversations like this even happen. I would encourage you to spend some time in Mozambique or Zimbabwe and get some perspective on what suffering is. I doubt we would be having these nebulous debates.

Posted by: jay | July 25, 2008 10:14 PM

Jay: These debates are nebulous to you because they don't affect you. You are not the one suffering while others debate what level of suffering is acceptable for you to endure. I am quite sure the animals do not find these issues to be nebulous.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | July 29, 2008 10:04 PM

Thank you Maya.

Posted by: lynda downie | July 30, 2008 02:58 AM

Jay
There's an important difference between fair disputation and being pedantic (nitpicking). Obviously Antigone must eat to live.
All of us who genuinely care about animals want to both grow in our awareness of how our choices impact them and to live as compassionately as we are able. Antigone is a much needed shot in the arm and a breath of fresh air.
I am committed to individuals whose suffering is as dire and important as those in Mozambique and Zimbabwe. But please, feel free to go where your heart is drawn.

Posted by: lynda downie | July 30, 2008 03:17 AM