My mother fed all her children meat and she still does to this day. Not one of us is in any medical health risks. Quite the contrary, my bothers and I are absolutely healthy and quite healthy.
You might as well warn the people about drinking too much water can kill you too! Which it can!

Posted by: Kurt K | April 30, 2008 12:43 PM

I think it's great.
LOVE IT!

Peace, for all animals!

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter for Animals | April 30, 2008 12:46 PM

Actually, Jack, it does trivialize child abuse because 99 percent of family doctors are going to tell parents that children need to eat meat.

99 percent of nutrition and child rearing guides and nurses are going to tell parents that children need to eat meat.

So you're comparing someone who beats a child to someone who is just doing what their doctor tells them to do.

In my humble opinion, PETA should pick on someone their own size, for example doctors, nurses, and nutritionists who overwhelmingly insist that a child without meat will be malnourished.

You're shooting yourself in the foot with this one.

Posted by: Maya, CVT | April 30, 2008 01:01 PM

I feel so bad for all the animals that have to suffer. Animals have to pay for the anger of hopeless people in this world. Somebody needs to stop the animal cruelty because it is not funny.

Posted by: abby balcazar | April 30, 2008 01:24 PM

I gotta say, that kid kind of freaks me out. I'm going to have nightmares tonight of my head being that hamburger.

Posted by: Laura | April 30, 2008 02:20 PM

How many of you feed your children soy? THAT is child abuse.

Posted by: Tabitha | April 30, 2008 03:38 PM

You have to remember that most children do not like veggies, and would abhor being a vegetarian. In fact, most kids like things that involve dairy, such as milk, yogurt, cheese, and ice cream. Essentially, children will not eat legumes the way that adults will, they want to eat what tastes good, and are more likely to eat things that are bad for them than things that are good. Eating healthy is about a balanced diet, and I hate to say it, but vegans have been known to have bone problems, anemia, and be underweight. I eat meat pretty sparingly, only about twice a week, but I eat eggs and dairy every day. It's essential, unless you want to take a ton of vitamins.

Posted by: TJ | April 30, 2008 03:48 PM

I think this is a great ad. There are far too many overweight kids in this country and parents should be ashamed of themselves for letting their kids get like that because, if you establish the pattern of overeating and inactivy in childhood, you are setting the child up for a very unhealthy lifestyle.

Posted by: antigone1000 | April 30, 2008 06:06 PM

I've always enjoyed this one.

If/when I have kids, they will be raised veg.

If they want a burger, they can buy it with their allowance. :)

Posted by: HannaBanana | April 30, 2008 06:18 PM

I am a Registered nurse Practitioner and I educate my patients on the harmful effects of eating meat, like heart disease, high cholesterol etc. Most M.D.'s tell patients that a vegetarian diet IS healthier! I am a vegetarian b/c I love animals and could never think of eating them, not to mention the cruelty they suffer before being killed. So you people are wrong about doctors telling people to eat meat.Maybe you live in the south? Here in the North East we discourage it!

Posted by: Tatlor | April 30, 2008 06:35 PM

I think its an awesome ad. If it gets attention to the ill-effects of eating meat, then it serves its purpose very, very, very well.

Offending some people is an unfortunate byproduct of getting attention to the incomparably important issue of speciesism and animal slavery.

I can see how this is particularly incensing to parents though, as it directly suggests they they are doing wrong to their children. That would freak anybody out.

Posted by: Mark | April 30, 2008 06:42 PM

I think the kids should be allowed to eat what they want. Kids will be kids

Posted by: vahn jay | April 30, 2008 09:08 PM

I like it. It's bold enough to make a controversial statement unapologetically. Good one, Peta UK!

Posted by: lynda downie | May 1, 2008 12:47 AM

Parents who are overfeeding their children in general and limiting physical activity are committing child abuse. It makes me sick to see young toddlers carrying excess weight and having breathing problems. I feel that parents need to take responsibility to make sure their children are eating a healthy diet rich in plant foods and getting proper exercise.

I think it would be awesome if everyone could be vegetarian. Vegetarianism comes with a multitude of health benefits and the food is downright delicious. However, I’m not judgmental towards people who feed their children a moderate amount of meat. Some families simply cannot afford to shop at stores that sell a healthy variety of vegan foods. For example, go into a suburban discount grocery store like Aldi’s or a church food bank. You’ll see items like cheap cuts of meat, eggs and a limited selection of common vegetables( carrots, iceburg lettuce, tomatoes, ect.), not aisles of lush produce, soy protein and whole grains. The important thing is that people eat what they feel comfortable with and can adequately provide.

Posted by: Anna Cacioppo | May 1, 2008 12:53 AM

You always have to remember that humans were never meant to eat as much meat as we do these days. Back when humans lived in nature, less than 15% of their diet was meat. It has always been like that. Too much meat is the number one reason for all the diseases we have nowadays.

Posted by: Veera | May 1, 2008 02:47 AM

childhood obesity is a real issue and this gets the message across.
hooray for PETA!

Posted by: Alyssa | May 1, 2008 04:28 AM

The epidemic of childhood obesity is not due to meat. Childhood obesity is, in large part, due to readily available ultra-processed calorie sources most of which are plant based (corn). As usual, Peta's agenda is fairly transparent and doesn't hold water. The child in the add is obese because he eats too much, period. Twinkies, fries, bread, chips, etc... The hamburger is not healthy, mind you, as it is likely feed lot fattened-with-corn beef, but I can name numerous examples of meat laden diets that are much healthier than this plant based diet. Yes the average American diet is PLANT based (namely corn). That being said, is the average committed vegan or vegetarian eating a healthier diet than the average American omnivore? Of course they are, but not simply because they are vegetarian. Many of us omnivores make conscious decisions to eat very healthy foods many of which are animal based, and we are equally healthy to vegans, perhaps more so. Meat doesn't make you fat, calories do. High fructose corn syrup and partially hydrogenated corn oil are much worse than venison, grass fed beef, or free range chickens, nutritionally speaking.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | May 1, 2008 10:26 AM

I can't believe some of these comments. First of all, there's more to life than physical health, for those claiming meat isn't unhealthy. What does it do to a child to play with the family dog one minute and eat a cow the next? Oh, that's right, we're supposed to pretend it does nothing, that's what's "normal" in our society. Most kids will at some point ask where their ham came from, and most parents will lie to them, that the pig lived on a nice little farm and died of old age or something. I've heard it, and that's abuse. Also, "most children do not like veggies"? What?? Most kids don't like taking medicine or doing homework, either, that's why kids aren't in charge of their lives! People need to actually parent. And if most vegans are unhealthy, it's because most PEOPLE are unhealthy and want to keep eating crap, just substituting vegan crap for other crap. My husband and I are vegan, we make most of our own food and avoid artificial ingredients, and we've never felt (or looked) better.

Posted by: Liza | May 1, 2008 10:45 AM

TJ,

Each to his/her own, but it's not essential to eat meat, dairy or eggs. It is essential to eat a varied, healthful diet of sufficient calories and to exercise.

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association (the A.D.A. paper cited more than 250 studies—my comment) and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases....Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence."
(As published in PubMed)

The key, of course, is a well-planned veg diet, something not every veg*n eats.

As far as vegans having bone problems, bone strength has a lot to do with stressing the bones through weight-bearing exercise. Even still, in one study the USDA found that "bone formation was significantly less in omnivore women than in vegan women. This happened even though the omnivore women had a higher calcium intake than did the vegan volunteers."

As far as anemia, "Some might expect that since the vegan diet contains a form of iron (non-heme) that is not that well absorbed, vegans might be prone to developing iron deficiency anemia. However, surveys of vegans have found that iron deficiency anemia is no more common among vegetarians than among the general population, although vegans tend to have lower iron stores."

As to being underweight, that is a strictly calories in, calories out equation. If a vegan takes in more calories than he/she expends they will gain weight. Veg*ns wishing to gain weight can put more emphasis on raw nuts and seeds.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | May 1, 2008 10:52 AM

I have had anemia for my whole life and obviously before I became a vegetarian in grade five.Now I am a vegan and perfectly healthy. I think lying to your children about meat is wrong and twisted.I have seen families chow down on flesh while cheering for the animals in "Chicken Run" and "Finding Nemo" etc.

Posted by: Annalena | May 1, 2008 11:03 AM

Anna,

Eating vegan need not be expensive. You can find all you require at standard grocery and bulk food stores.

If you buy in-season fruits and vegetables, they are reasonably priced.

Buying whole grains in bulk—such as hard wheat berries, steel-cut oat groats, barley, brown rice, etc.—also is not costly.

Cello-packed or canned kidney beans, chick peas, soy beans and lentils are dirt-cheap.

Soy milk and nuts and seeds cost a bit more, but certainly no more than a meat purchase.

If you go into a health food store you will undoubtedly pay more, but it's far from necessary.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | May 1, 2008 11:49 AM

Tatlor,

Hi, I seriously doubt most doctors recommend a vegetarian diet, however I'm sure you're right in that they would promote more fruits and veggies.

Most docs like Chris probably recommend fewer calories and less sugar. That is the cornerstone of losing weight.

Also, do you really think the kid in the ad will just go bananas over a vegetarian diet? Most doctors don't talk about nutrition unless there is a major problem already. And even then I guarantee you that most aren't mentioning a vegetarian diet.

This can probably only be determined by a study of doctors, but I'd bet money on it.

Mostly I've heard of babies raised vegan as being abused children. More doctors would report a vegan baby than would report a meat eating baby.

I agree that parents of obese kids may be too indulgent, but I guarantee you that parents of athletic kids are ENCOURAGED by their doctors to give a balanced diet, which in their mind can most certainly include meat!

Posted by: Maya, CVT | May 1, 2008 11:55 AM

Christopher—great example of twisted logic.

Cows eat corn. People eat beef. Ergo, people are actually eating corn.

Pheasant eats insects. Christopher shoots and eats pheasant. Christopher is an insectivore.

Am I reading your post right?

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | May 1, 2008 12:22 PM

Maya, TJ, Tabitha, and vahn jay, you are all unquestionably incorrect in your statements, generalizations, and assumptions.

I am a Family Doctor, and I never have encouraged a single patient to eat meat, no matter their weight percentile or BMI. No nutritionist, nurse, or physician with whom I have spoke on the subject insists that a child eat meat. Some do think that increasing dairy intake is helpful for underweight infants, but do not push meat as an answer for growth concerns.

My wife and I are raising our now 20 month old as a vegetarian, and his favorite foods as edamame, tofu, and fresh cooked vegetables. He even prefers broccoli instead of chocolate cake! We do put vitamin drops in his water to cover any B12 deficiency in his diet; the alternative "supplement" is stuffing his face with dead animal flesh.

Kids lack the cognitive development needed to make well-informed decisions, so to argue that "kids will be kids" as a way to justify letting them choose to eat meat would be akin to allowing a child to play in the middle of the interstate simply because they thought it would be fun.

Now, I will admit that meat alone is not the root of all evil when it comes to childhood obesity, as one can consume extra calories from a number of sources. The truth is that often the hamburger or steak is 2-3 or more times the size of a regular portion and is served with supersized fries (or buttery sour-cream filled potato) and a large, free-refill drink.

For those who have or plan to raise vegetarian children, I would highly recommend adding the book "Benji Bean Sprout Doesn't Eat Meat" to your story-time list. It does a great (elementary) job at touching on how a vegetarian child may be perceived at school and how to handle the time if/when they ask to try meat.

Posted by: Derek | May 1, 2008 12:22 PM

My kids eat meat on a regular basis and are not obese or in bad health. Every dinner includes vegetables, and they are expected to eat a certain amount of those before they can have bread or dessert, the things they would prefer to eat.
I have never lied to my children about where meat comes from. In fact, my 9-year-old once asked me about burgers and chicken and where the animals came from, and I told her that many animals are bred and raised by companies for the sole purpose of providing food. She has heard of vegetarians, and I told her that some people choose not to eat meat at all because they think animals shouldn't be killed for food. Not all children are told lies about their food.
I would not force my children to eat meat if they didn't want to, just as I would not force them to stop eating it. If my children go to a birthday party and have cake and ice cream, I'm not going to lecture them or lay a guilt trip on them. Apparently in your minds, that makes me abusive, but it's the exact opposite. I feel sorry for any child who is made to feel guilty and bear the weight of industries they have no control over to any degree.

Posted by: tammy | May 1, 2008 12:25 PM

In response to Maya's statement, "Mostly I've heard of babies raised vegan as being abused children. More doctors would report a vegan baby than would report a meat eating baby":

I very rarely lose my cool, but your ignorance is so great that I feel the need to tell you to shut the hell up. You are not a physician, so stop acting like you have the slightest clue as to what we think or do in our practices. When you have done a minimum of 7 years post-graduate education and training (med school and a 3 year residency), then you can speak as though you know what a doctor would say or recommend.

Nutrition is the cornerstone of treating a patient from the beginning of their life, which is why it is (or should be) discussed at every well-child visit, with appropriate attention paid to the diets of obese children. A balanced diet does not need to include meat, but one cannot have a balanced diet without frutis, whole grains, and vegetables. Athletes, like the rest of us less physically gifted folk do not need meat in their diets either.

Posted by: Derek | May 1, 2008 03:18 PM

I'm truly amazed at how many of you stereotype vegans. First of all, there is a difference between being vegetarian and vegan. Vegetarians still do dairies and eggs. It's proven fact that vegetarians and vegans live on average 13 years longer. If you know someone who has frail bones and is unhealthy, they are not vegan- they are anorexic. I was raised vegetarian and had regular checkups. I was healthy as could be. I then made my own choice to take it a step further. Nobody forced me. I didn't want/miss meat because I never had it. I want to thank my parents for saving me from a higher risk of heart attack and other health related issues correlated to meat eating. I was never deprived of food. I had ice cream and all the treats that the other kids had. I had vegie dogs instead of hot dogs. It was simple and made me a healthier and more caring human being. I hope that you can see beyond your stereotypes and give yourself and your children a major health boost.

Posted by: Patrick | May 1, 2008 03:21 PM

Derek,

Being a doctor I'm sure you know that one example of a doctor who endorses vegetarianism (yourself, no less!!) is not scientific proof. You should know that since you are a medical professional.

I admit I was probably assuming too much. You and I would both need a study or at the very least a poll to know the hard evidence.

If you were the only doctor on the planet, maybe that would hold up to scientific muster. But you are not.

I'd be willing to bet money that at the very least, most doctors are not mentioning vegetarianism at all.

Posted by: Maya, CVT | May 1, 2008 03:49 PM

Derek, thank you for proving my point.

Your exact quote: "Which is why it is (or should be) discussed at every well-child visit".

Yes, Derek, nutrition, as I said, is not always discussed. Thanks for backing me up on that. Therefore, if nutrition is not discussed, how can vegetarinaism be part of the conversation?

And thank you for telling me to shut the hell up. I'm sure the nurses and other staff who work for you just love being around a guy who would curse at a woman just for disagreeing with him.

If really are a doctor, I am disappointed by your lack of respect for your fellow human.

Posted by: Maya, CVT | May 1, 2008 03:56 PM

Mike,
There is little debate that the diet of an animal largely contributes to the nutritive value of said animal and it's products (read: eggs, milk, meat). A free-ranging wild bison is much more nutritious than feeder beeves that have never seen anything but the inside of trough full of processed corn. I am not an insectivore, though I have eaten them on occasion; I am an omnivore, as you well know.
Galliforme birds do not have access to insects during the traditional hunting season. Their diet of proteinaceous insects is key to their reproductive health. During the hunting season, galliformes are usually feeding on seeds. Also, over ninety percent of the carbon in a mcdonalds burger is derived from CORN. So, I don't realy see how my logic is so twisted. Would you like an order of processed (with high-fructose CORN syrup) potato product fried in CORN oil with your CORN burger? Don't vilify the meat, vilify the "food engineer" and the people who ruined the meat in the first place. A big mac and a super sized coke have about 400-500 calories each.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | May 1, 2008 04:00 PM

Please allow me to provide more information on PETA’s thinking behind this ad: Study after study has shown a direct link between the consumption of animal products and obesity. Vegan diets are typically much lower in fat than the standard American meat-eater’s diet, so for most people, “going veg” is an effective way to maintain a healthy weight.

Even though some vegetarians do have high cholesterol and/or suffer from other conditions that are common among meat-eaters, studies show that by choosing to eat only non-animal foods, vegetarians cut their risk of developing many illnesses and dying of America’s top killers. For most people, veganism is an effective prevention strategy. We’re not claiming that veganism is guaranteed to result in weight loss or that there are no obese vegans; high-calorie, high-fat vegan foods do exist, and it is possible to follow an unhealthful vegan diet. However, for those who want to lose weight and improve their health—and help animals at the same time—a balanced vegan diet is the best option.

There is significant proof that feeding children a diet high in meat and dairy products may set them up for future health problems such as heart disease. By age three, in fact, children eating the typical meat- and milk-heavy Western diet often have the fatty deposits in their coronary arteries that can eventually lead to heart attacks. According to the late Dr. Benjamin Spock, America's leading authority on child care, “children who grow up getting their nutrition from plant foods rather than meats have a tremendous health advantage. They are less likely to develop weight problems, diabetes, high blood pressure and some forms of cancer.” And if your child is eating meat, dairy products, and eggs, you’re probably exposing him or her to (on average) 22 times the level of dioxin that the EPA says is safe—the EPA reports that 95 percent of dioxin exposure comes through eating meat and dairy products, while little or none comes from eating vegan foods (the other 5 percent is environmental).

Modern medical studies have shown that meat is unquestionably implicated in heart disease, strokes, and many other diseases. Furthermore, as the American Dietetic Association’s position paper on vegetarianism states, “[A]ppropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.”

Dr. William Castelli, director of the Framingham Heart Study, the longest-running epidemiological study in medical history, reports, “[V]egetarians have the best diet. They have the lowest rates of coronary disease of any group in the country. … [T]hey have a fraction of our heart attack rate and they have only 40 percent of our cancer rate. … On the average, they outlive other men by about six years now. And they outlive other women by about three years.”

Following are further studies that may be of interest:

A 20-year project following 27,529 subjects concluded that consumption of animal products was positively associated with mortality resulting from coronary heart disease, diabetes, and cancers of the colon, prostate, and ovary.
—D.A. Snowdon, “Animal Product Consumption and Mortality Because of All Causes Combined, Coronary Heart Disease, Stroke, Diabetes, and Cancer in Seventh-Day Adventists.” Am J Clin Nutr 48, 1988, pp. 739-48

A study of 34,192 Californians reports that the lifetime risk of ischemic heart disease is 37 percent lower in male vegetarians compared to their nonvegetarian counterparts and that risk of diabetes mellitus, hypertension, arthritis, and cancers of the colon, prostate, and bladder was significantly higher in nonvegetarians.
—G.E. Fraser, “Associations Between Diet and Cancer, Ischemic Heart Disease, and All-Cause Mortality in Non-Hispanic White California Seventh-Day Adventists,” Am J Clin Nutr, 70, 999, pp. 532S-538S

At the University of Western Australia, researchers found consumption of meat to be associated with increased risk for all strokes.
—K. Jamrozik, R.J. Broadhurst, C.S. Anderson, and E.G. Stewart-Wynne, “The Role of Lifestyle Factors in the Etiology of Stroke: A Population-Based Case-Control Study in Perth, Western Australia,” Stroke, 25 (1), 1994, pp. 51-9.

Posted by: Jeff, PETA Admin | May 1, 2008 04:00 PM

I think it is so funny when people say nothing is unhealthy about eating meat-- hormones are healthy?
your body cannot digest meat very well either there are so many factors about being healthy. until i learned about meat and organics i thought i was very healthy-- i was wrong.

Posted by: Arizona | May 1, 2008 04:30 PM

I was just to my doctor and asked her what she thought about my being vegetarian and she said that it was the best thing for my health. A DOCTOR said that!

Congrats PETA UK!!

Posted by: Kathleen | May 1, 2008 04:33 PM

meat = cholesterol..

(ie. derived from fatty animal meat products) ie. not good for your heart, your health, the environment.. and the animals suffering on intensive factory farms..
less!! (meat) is best or better ! kids bein' growin' up.. will need their protein.. I would guess.. as well as some moderate intake of meat.. any veggie or vegan can tell you you can find protein in most other food products also

Posted by: yuen | May 1, 2008 04:42 PM

Derek: It is so good to hear from a doctor who supports a healthy diet for his patients. I have been vegan for about 16 years now and am in the best health/shape of any non-veg I know. I don't think that's coincidental and I encourage everyone I know to give up meat/dairy and, of course, to exercise. I really think that practitioners focusing on a healthy lifestyle is something that we do not have nearly enough of in this day and age.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | May 1, 2008 05:57 PM

Hey Doc,
Find your cool. Maya is correct when she cites cases of ultra-vegans being prosecuted for child abuse. The fringes shouldn't define anything, though. That doesn't mean that the parent who feeds their kid honey buns for supper doesn't deserve the same. I hope my credentials are adequate for commenting on this topic as I have been through at least as rigorous a training as you.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | May 1, 2008 09:10 PM

Christopher,

What the heck is an ultra-vegan? You are hyperbolizing. You're either a vegan or you're not a vegan.

Where are Maya's citations for your statement, "Maya is correct when she cites cases of ultra-vegans being prosecuted for child abuse."

You said, "Also, over ninety percent of the carbon in a mcdonalds burger is derived from CORN. "

That's a good argument to eat the corn at source instead of the beeve, thus reducing the carbon, not to mention water usage, significantly. As you well know, grains are fed only at the finishing stage of beef production, but not during backgrounding. Does this mean humans are also then consumers of hay?

Anyway, I don't buy your argument that meat-eaters are really closet plant-eaters. If that was true, why bother eating meat in the first place?

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | May 2, 2008 09:24 AM

Christopher Cochran: Could you provide any information re: those cases of vegans being prosecuted for child abuse? I would like to see those for myself.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | May 2, 2008 09:27 AM

As an experienced Child Protection Worker, with a specialization in pre/postnatal work, I can tell you that in my agency, there has never been a child neglect case involving veganism. I live in a city with a population of 1 million people, with urban, rural and suburban populations, so I think it is pretty representative. I am not discounting the cases that did involve vegan parents elsewhere, but clearly those cases are in the minority when it comes to neglectful parents. I think those ones get sensationalized in the media, so people tend to remember them, thus the (incorrect) perception that veganism is dangerous for infants.

Posted by: Michele | May 2, 2008 11:25 AM

Thank you, Michele! Right on.

Posted by: Jack | May 2, 2008 12:20 PM

Human beings are not specialized carnivores. We can not digest and utilize meat in say the same manner as a wolverine or hyena. Look at our closest ancestors the great apes. They feed primarily on plant matter though chimpanzees will eat insects,small rodents and lizards etc as well as other monkeys to supplement their diets.The hormones in animal products have proved to cause early development in girls ie breasts. A constant stream of fatty meat,cheese and milk is not healthy for anyone. What other animal drinks milk beyond infancy? Veganism is really not that expensive.Soy milk and nuts can be a bit expensive but so are steaks. Vegetables fruits and whole grains are affordable. While some of you may tell your children where meat comes from many do not. My parents did not tell me and forbid me to discuss my lifestlye with my meat eating brother and sister. I do not ingest corn syrup and corn products as the majority of my diet.

Posted by: Annalena | May 2, 2008 01:01 PM

i love peta cats dogs and should be loved and taking care of i no this and i am only 10 years old and we should not eat meat! SAVE THE CATS AND DOGS!

Posted by: allayhana | May 2, 2008 01:27 PM

hi my name is allayhana and i love peta and we should not eat cow and i am only 10 i wachted the videos on here and i cryd my heart out it was so sad to wach the people do that to the cats and dogs and rabbits i cant beleavIT! and i just what to say SAVE THE CATS AND DOGS AND RABBITS AND ALL THE ANMILES! :)

Posted by: allayhana | May 2, 2008 01:33 PM

another statement above showing that cocky is not watertight but nuts!

Posted by: the artful doctor | May 2, 2008 02:45 PM

Okay thats ridiculous. I belive in peace for all living things. But this is retarded. Meat has iron in it and its healthy for children. Steamed chicken is meat and its GREAT for you. Not all meat is greasy. Most of it is healthy.

Posted by: Greer T. | May 2, 2008 07:08 PM

Dr. Cochran,

I do indeed agree you have more than adequate credentials to speak on the matters which you discuss, and since you are Internal Medicine, you could argue that your training was more rigerous than mine! That said, one well-publicized case does not support her generalization.

Maya,

If my nurses and staff (who enjoy working with me) told patients what they thought I would say or do, then the relationship would not last long. They are my greatest assets in practice, but I (and I doubt my patients either) would not want them interpreting results or making recommendations in my name.

I don't have anymore lack of respect for you than you do for doctors, given how you seem inclined to speak on the behalf of my profession.

I also do not preach to patients about becoming vegetarian; I merely said that I and no other doctor with whom I have had contact would under normal circumstances endorse a meat-laden diet, but instead would give the tired old line about a balanced diet.

Posted by: Derek | May 2, 2008 11:51 PM

Is it worse to have a 10 pound 15 month old or a 30 pound 9 month old (which I have seen on multiple occassions)? One might find it hard to believe that a parent would not think that their child did not appear unhealthy, but I have found to never underestimate what a non-medical person knows about health and medicine (that is an observation and not a derogatory comment). The prevalence of obese meat/corn (whatever you want to call it) eating children far outweighs that of a malnourished vegan child. One of the residents with whom I tranied has raised her children vegan, and none of them suffer from rickets or kwashiorkor.

Dr. Cochran speaks about the "fringe" groups, but those "responsible" lean, non-processed-meat eaters are yet another example of an extreme fringe group as well. To argue in favor of meat-eating through the attacks on corn is not very convincing. Many vegetarians (and here I go with the generalizations) do not have corn as a staple of their diet and being more health-conscious (on average) also are avoiding the high-fructose corn syrups, etc. Corn and its products are likely more prevalent in a meat-based diet than one who chooses a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle.

Living in Iowa, my views on obesity, the meat industry, and corn products puts me in a fringe group as well. Resistance to fighting obesity is intense and very non-PC, but I do not enjoy diagnosing pre-teens with Type II Diabetes or non-hereditary high cholesterol.

A responsible physician would be more likely to report a child to DHS for being malnourished (which can easily happen with a meat-based diet) than because the parents are raising their children vegan; someday I hope to be able to report parents who repeatedly ignore recommendations and referrals in regards to their obese children. Alas, our society has not evolved to that point yet.

Posted by: Derek | May 3, 2008 08:23 AM

This is to Laura that said that giving your children soy is abuse. First of all that is bull shit. Do you think its right to abuse thousands of cows a year for milk or other dairy products. And plus its known that dairy is the opposite of what it is believed to be. Do your research before you say something false

Posted by: Cody | May 3, 2008 11:37 AM

This is to Laura that said that giving your children soy is abuse. First of all that is bull shit. Do you think its right to abuse thousands of cows a year for milk or other dairy products. And plus its known that dairy is the opposite of what it is believed to be. Do your research before you say something false

Posted by: Cody | May 3, 2008 11:38 AM

Thank you, Chris.

Jack,

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/03/24/ctv.swinton/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/20/national/main668225.shtml

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/ny_local/2003/03/19/2003-03-19_tot_starve_witness_is_arrest.html

Posted by: Maya, C.V.T. | May 3, 2008 12:16 PM

What it all comes down to for me is that if we dont HAVE to eat animals, why would we? We don't, so I won't. Thanks

Posted by: Brian | May 3, 2008 02:48 PM

Christopher Cochran you need to read your facts before saying dumb shit like that who would ask " why bother meat eating anyway ". Well if you dont know you jerk its because they are abused, used and they are not ours to eat you piece

Posted by: Cody | May 3, 2008 07:48 PM

Hi Derek -

Glad to see you've calmed down a bit. Even if I perpetuated a mistruth in the medical profession, I don't think it was quite as disrespectul as when you told me to shut the hell up.

For what it's worth, I should have stated my position differently. I should have said this: I beleive that if a study were conducted or a poll were taken, we would find that nutrition is not discussed in exam rooms the majority of the time.

Maybe it's because doctors don't discuss it enough, or maybe it's because often only see the doctor for specific problems instead of for yearly exams.

I suggest that I don't know all the facts, but that is what they are: facts. The percentage of doctors that discuss vegetarianism is a percentage, not an opinion.

It would be nice if there were a way to find the numbers.

Posted by: Maya, CVT | May 4, 2008 04:44 PM

Maya,

Your 1st and 3rd links relate to just one case: Ice Swinton.

In the 2nd link, the five-month-old baby who died was fed "uncooked fruits and grains" and "was fed only wheat grass, coconut water and almond milk."

In the Swinton case, the malnourished baby was fed "herbal tea, flax seed oil, fruit juices and a homemade soy drink."

Why weren't these babies being breast-fed? It's very apparent that the parents were grossly negligent.

These are obviously vastly inadequate diets for vegans of any age.

The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada don't agree with your assessment:

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association (the A.D.A. paper cited more than 250 studies—my comment) and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases....Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence."
(As published in PubMed)

"Appropriately planned" and "well-planned" are the operative phrases in the above quote.

You can check out this link to view and read about some very healthy vegan-from-birth children:

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | May 4, 2008 07:19 PM

I want to thank the health professionals here who took the time to attempt to correct people's unbelievably uneducated and thoughtless opinions. I am a vegetarian and the decision to eliminate meat from my diet is one of the best decisions I have ever made. I was trying to find a polite way to express my disgust at people's opinions about the UK ad and the subsequent discussion about vegetarianism related to kids. Thank you for your thoughtful and INFORMED comments!

Posted by: Heather | May 4, 2008 08:05 PM

For anyone reading this blog who still thinks that meat is so great, you might want to read the book "Bird Flu: a Virus of Our Own Hatching". (was that Mike Q who recommended that to me a little while ago?)

It is VERY eye-opening. If I had read something like this book years and years ago, I would have given up meat just for the sake of my health (and my life!). I stopped eating meat 3 years ago, for the sake of the animals, but I am learning more and more all the time about the health and environmental risks associated with meat eating.

Posted by: Michele | May 4, 2008 10:28 PM

The ad is certainly eye catching!! I never thought that serving a child a hamburger would be considered child abuse. Vegans want to impose their lifestyle views on a primarly meat eating public. Thats fine, but child abuse!! Give me a break. This add at least is not as disturbing as the one with Holocaust victims on one side and a bunch of little piggies on the other. Now THAT is disgusting!!

Posted by: tony makauskas | May 5, 2008 01:23 AM

The Ad is completly true that Feeding Meat to Kids are exactly their Abuse as to through this Parents or guardian spoil childhood of their Kids.

Tajinder Singh
Petadishoom

Posted by: Tajinder Singh | May 5, 2008 01:50 AM

Did someone mention HAY? Mmm, HAY! Where's my bale? I'll eat it all day, as long as it's soaked in 100% vegan single-malt scotch!

Save the homeless kittens and puppies. TNR the feral cats. Stop shelter euthanasia. Protect the battery hens from abuse. Make the abattoirs as humane as possible. Save the whales, foxes, seals, and chinchillas. I'm all for it!

But, let the militant vegans screech into the dark, echoing, empty void of total public disinterest. The average American/European has about as much interest in becoming a vegan as he or she has in receiving a free Hamas membership or taking a vow of chastity.

Let's keep it relevant, folks, and keep it realistic.

Posted by: Kiff | May 5, 2008 04:33 AM

I find it amusing that some of these comments say "let kids be kids".

What about being parents and monitoring what your children eat. My brother who is 10 came to stay with me for a few days and he loved eating tofu burgers and having soya milk on his cereal because it tasted good.

Maybe if more people thought beyond their own selfishness and in ability to take responsibility for things .. this world would be a better place for all of us animals.

Posted by: claire stokoe | May 5, 2008 07:04 AM

TJ: I have to take issue with you here. My vegan nephew and his wife have raised their kids as vegans and both are the picture of health, never having had meat/eggs/milk in their lives. I have been vegan for over a year now, and, at 65 years old, my bone density actually IMPROVED this past year, along with my cholesterol, blood pressure and weight. There are definite health advantages to being vegetarian/vegan, aside from the obvious benefit to the animals. See the writings of Dr. Dean Ornish, a highly respected dietician whose diet is used by medical doctors to reverse heart disease. It is the meat/milk/egg industries who want people to believe that we can't live without them. In fact, we live much better -and longer - without them!

Posted by: Susannah | May 5, 2008 08:16 AM

Meat driven soceities are helping to churn out fat kids, McKids as I call them. Along with the tv/video games as the baby sitter and lack of physical education in schools we are killing the next generation.

Personally I think meat does far more damage than religious soceities that practice polygamy and get their kids taken away.

Posted by: Ted | May 5, 2008 08:29 AM

Hi Michele,

I can't remember if it was me or not, but author Michael Greger, MD has kindly made the whole book ("Bird Flu: a Virus of Our Own Hatching") available online for free:

http://birdflubook.com/g.php?id=5

You can also buy the book at that link, and Michael donates all proceeds to charity. What a sweet guy!

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | May 5, 2008 10:19 AM

Hi Mike! Thank you for the link.

I did not realize I sent duplicate articles - it was not intentional. Thank you for alerting me to that. (I post too hastily sometimes) ;)

However, I think you misunderstood my statement. I never said that a vegan diet was unhealthy for children.

What I said was this: doctors and lawmakers are more likely to target vegan parents than they are to target parents who feed their kids meat. Thus the articles.

As Chris pointed out, that may be a fringe group and is still a rare event. But my main point is that if we took a poll of doctors who discussed vegetarianism for children, I bet it would be relatively rare.

Which leads me to my original point, Mike. PETA should not be throwing the term "child abuse" in the face of parents until doctors and nutritionists are willing to state that vegetarianism is a better diet for children.

Until then, you can't accuse parents of child abuse if their doctors are at the very least NOT condeming meat, at the worst, promoting it as a healthy part of the diet.

I have to assume that more parents are listening to their family doctors than are reading the latest news from PubMed. So they are not getting enough information to throw the term "child abusers" at them.

But of course as a vegetarian myself, IF I had kids, I would definetly want a meat free diet for them.

Thank you again for the info, Mike! We may not agree 100 percent but I am grateful for the link and the information!

;)

Posted by: Maya, CVT | May 5, 2008 10:21 AM

I'm sure all the TRULY abused children in the world who aren't fed ANYTHING really appreciate this comparison.

Posted by: Tabitha | May 5, 2008 10:52 AM

Dear PETA

Although your ad is funny, I must admitt it is slightly misguiding.

Eating RED meats is bad for you (i.e hamburgers) however meat such as chicken is not bad for you and is in fact stocked up in proteins and has little to no fat.

I am an avid animal lover, I dont eat red meats because I refuse to sink my teeth into a cow or sheep (lamb is an absolute NO) however I DO eat chicken on a weekly basis because it is healthy and because it's one of the best ways for me to consume a large amount of protein (tofu makes me gag). Not all meats make you fat, and i apoligize for eating chicken because I'm sure many of you out there woudl love to condem me for it.

Posted by: Grace | May 5, 2008 12:19 PM

Grace,

Hi there. You're right, you might get quite a bit of abuse on this site for eating chicken and your statement, but not from me.

It's a good point because I think about this all the time in my advocacy.

Most people know that wearing fur or buying from puppy mills or pet stores will not make them healthier.

Sorry to be harsh, but any moron knows that fur and pet store animals are not neccesary and are probably treated like crap.

The food industry is a completely different story. What we put in our bodies is a WAY more touchy subject than what we buy for material goods.

I learned this as a vegetarian in college - people would practically spit in my face if I sat down with a veggie meal, even if I didn't say anything!

The mere act of eating vegetarian can make some people livid. It's a product of guilt, I think.

The point is, nutrition is vitally important. However, it does not change the fact that factory farmed chickens are one of the most cruelly treated animals on Earth.

The conditions chickens are put in are so vile that a mutated virus grew out of the practice and is now infecting humans. It's really scary.

I think if you tried it, you would find fake chicken products delicious, nutritious and versitile for those of us who like to cook.

If you don't want to give up chicken right away, maybe just try fake chicken and see if you could live with it! ;) I think you would be surprised.

Sadly the bird flu could become a really severe problem in the future - the only way to stop it is to have a worldwide boycott on chicken products, and you and I can be part of the solution.

;) Thank you for listening!

Posted by: Maya, CVT | May 5, 2008 02:30 PM

And Cody (and Derek) since it was ME that mentioned feeding soy being child abuse, Maybe YOU should do your research. You'll find there's just as many horrors in the making of IT as in any slaughterhouse. And it's a medical fact that feeding a baby soy infant formula is the same as feeding a baby birth control pills. Just because it doesn't come from an animal doesn't mean it's healthy.

Posted by: Tabitha | May 5, 2008 02:59 PM

I just did a quick non-scientific Google search regarding obesity as child abuse cases, and they far outnumber the single overly-publicized malnourished vegan child case; many people and industries seem much quicker to jump on a vegan child abuse case than that of an obese child. The link from the BBC, for example, reports that 20 cases of childhood morbid obesity in the past year (06-07) were reported to child health services.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/09/obese.abuse/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6749037.stm

http://virtualmentor.ama-assn.org/2003/08/ccas3-0308.html

I also found a discussion board post about a child named Jared Ostrander, a 4 year old boy who lost 70 pounds after being taken out of his parents' home.

Also, for the record, a serving size of "lean" meat is 3 oz. I don't think that includes Big Macs and hot dogs...

Posted by: Derek | May 5, 2008 04:18 PM

Tabitha, good luck finding a valid (key word) scientific study linking the amount of isoflavins/pytoestrogens in Soy to any harmful short or long term effects on a healthy child...basically, you won't.

Posted by: Derek | May 5, 2008 04:21 PM

Maya,

Thanks for your reply. If I misinterpreted your post, my apologies.

Certainly, the parents mentioned in your links, though perhaps vegan themselves, did not feed their children a healthy vegan diet—more like a starvation diet. Lawmakers should rightfully target "parents" like these.

I think a few reasons some doctors are reluctant to promote vegetarian or vegan diets are their lack of knowledge and training on the subject, and their fear that some patients would strongly balk at the idea, or perceive them as a maverick.

There are people who put their personal health at minimum priority, and as such, would never comply with a veg diet. We are dying largely of diseases of our own device nowadays, and it's hard to dissuade someone hellbent on self-destruction.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | May 5, 2008 05:40 PM

Hmmm..... to all those who think this ad is inappropriate, I have to ask--do you really think it is okay to allow your children to be excessively fat, become diabetic, and have to rely on drugs??? I totally agree with this ad. I see way too many obese children and it's disgusting. It's bad enough the majority of adult Americans opt to be disgustingly obese, now they allow their children to become disgustingly obese. Even more sad when you think of the number of people who starve to death in the world and, here we are, gluttonous Americans, who can't control our appetites. We should be ashamed. The worst part is--the most unhealthy people are those in the medical industry!! Why would I go to a doctor who is out of shape and clearly unhealthy? What kind of example is he setting?

Posted by: Antigone1000 | May 5, 2008 09:17 PM

Antigone,

In what state do you live that "the most unhealthy people are those in the medical industry," Texas, Mississippi? Based on some of your past posts, you clearly have had some type of issue with a physician, so if your physician is fat and sits in his office with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, go find a different one; you have no one to blame but yourself if you are unhappy with your physician. Like anything, medicine is a consumer driven market - you decide which "product" (physician) to utilize.

As I've said before (in relation to drug prescriptions), a vast majority of patients do not want to be educated on their disease and empowered with the ability to modify their life or diet to benefit their health; they would rather opt for a pill instead of being "inconvenienced" with such things as exercise and a healthy diet. Also, discussing with a parent about limiting the amount of meat/candy/pop their child consumes or reducing "family time" of sitting in front of the TV from 5-10 PM every night is often viewed as an attempt to deprive their child of something or attack their parenting skills.

Posted by: Derek | May 6, 2008 09:56 AM

Derek: No offense, but I stand by what I said. I work with doctors/nurses, and the majority of them smoke and are overweight so, as a rule, I don't go to doctors at all. I just don't see the point in going to someone about my health who clearly does not care about his/her own. The point I was trying to make is that physicians are not necessarily the best judges of what constitutes a healthy lifestyle. You are free to disagree, but that is definitely the case where I live.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | May 6, 2008 06:23 PM

Cody

So then whats with the bad language? :)

Posted by: Dr.Breen | May 8, 2008 03:31 PM

Antigone(its me again)
You are correct, we do have epidemic of overweight children in this country! I guess you can argue that eating to much meat is bad for the kid. However, what is far worse is just overeating period. If you over eat on anything without exercise, you will gain weight! I wrestled in High School, I know the secret to being healthy. Eat less crap and run your ass off. That simple, some people just don't want to do it.
If a parent feeds a kid a burger here and there, and that kids is involved in athletics and exercise, I see not one problem with it. However, if that same parent feeds the kid a ton of meat and junk food and let that kid play X-Box all day, then I have a huge problem with it. Its not the meats fault, it is the bad parenting!
So saying simply feeding you child meat is abuse, is a little oversimplified. There are so many other factors that come into question.
You agree?

Posted by: Kurt K | May 9, 2008 11:22 AM

Kurt K: While eating a burger here and there may not make you fat, it ALWAYS is a symbol of animal abuse because no animal willingly gave up that burger for your eating pleasure. So--whether or not a burger here or there will make you fat, it is NOT necessary for you to live, it is NOT the best source of nutrition for any human, it is NOT good for the environment or the animals. The ad may be oversimplified, but that does not make it wrong. If you want to continue to argue for your "right" to eat meat, may you get all the unhealthiness you have coming to you. I just wish I could pay for my own health care without having to bear the cost of yours.

Posted by: Antigone1000 | May 12, 2008 07:37 PM

Sorry about that it is just so frustrating of how people don't eccept the fact that what peta says is true. Its mind boggelin

Posted by: Cody | May 16, 2008 04:04 PM