I've been a Giants fan for 7yrs. Sooooo "HORRAY"!! To get a wild card spot and to go on to win the Superbowl is FAN-tastic! And Strahan is my hero!!

Posted by: Carla | February 4, 2008 02:18 PM

I'm from Indiana so naturally I'm a Colts fan. Around here Peyton Manning is damn near worshiped and the New England Patriots are despised! Therefore, by default, I was for the Giants because we love Peyton and vicariously we now love Eli. Plus our hatred for the Pats helped too! Congrats to the Girants. GO HORSE!!

Posted by: Kurt K | February 4, 2008 03:21 PM

I feel the same Kurt K but I live in Canada. I love the NFL even better then the CFL, opps... did I say that! Long live Peta and NFL!!

Posted by: Carla | February 4, 2008 04:31 PM

once again i repeat since you wouldn't print the first comment... how can any true blue petaphile vegan even think of watching a football game or any sport??? considering that football and every other sport goes against the stricter than GOD, PETA AGENDA....

after all, in football,,,,they use leather balls and leather cleats ...

once again...does the word
" HYPOCRITE" score a touchdown!!!!!!!!

Posted by: common sense steve | February 5, 2008 08:44 AM

Steve, lighten up, man. I think you're missing the point about how veganism and animal rights philosophy works. As a vegan, I've made a personal choice not to purchase products that were made in a way that caused suffering to animals, and I encourage others to do the same (and for what it's worth, I try to do so without overusing the caps lock key). But completely opting out of society simply because society continues to engage in practices that I disagree with would be absurd and utterly counterproductive. You may be interested to know that PETA has worked with all of the major sporting institutions to encourage them to switch to synthetic materials instead of leather, and that the NCAA began using synthetic basketballs after extensive communications with us on the topic. We'll continue to work with the NFL on this issue.

Veganism is a philosophy that encourages people to make compassionate choices in life. It doesn't mean that you shouldn’t enjoy life to the fullest--quite the contrary. It's simply a question of acting in such a way as to minimize the suffering that you see in the world around you. Every little bit helps, and I wouldn't criticize anybody who was making an effort to do that for falling short of some misconceived notion of absolute purity.

-Jack

Posted by: Jack | February 5, 2008 11:41 AM

Steve,
I am not known for defending peta, rather I enjoy debating many of the misconceptions peta puts forward. Like many groups, however, peta is often defined by its loudest, wackiest, zealots. I imagine most peta members are reasonable people who only wish to improve animal conditions any way they can. On this blog you get to see the most outrageous of those people, but I can't imagine peta would be as successful as it is if they were all such uncompromising, dogmatic bigots. A majority of peta members are likely quite reasonable. This is a guess, I must admit. I know as a southern white male, I am always disappointed when the media finds the most backwards toothless simpleton to give comment when something happens in the rural South. I hate to be defined thusly.
Historically, wack jobs haven't held much sway in influencing society, and the wacky peta members are no exception. However, peta HAS elicited change, so I must believe that most of peta can't be those kind of wacky folks, otherwise peta's infrastructure and influence would be disastrous. Just a guess, I know.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | February 5, 2008 12:33 PM

jack.... once again, i must thank you for allowing me to voice my opposite opinions on your blog... you have been very gracious and fair...
i still must totally disagree with you because of the way the majority of your bloggers have spit at, cursed at, told to die, etc, etc at me and others who disgree with the peta agenda.
they want nothing to do with anything i have to say.... so why should i or anyone listen to hypocrites who cannot stand by the total peta agenda.... no half ways or a little of this or that....
peta is asking for the entire world to change their ways...
they're telling companys to stop using animal products and thus eliminating millions of jobs world wide...

why should anyone listen when your rank & file can't even follow the total agenda????

Posted by: common sense steve | February 5, 2008 12:38 PM

Hey Jack, good post—very nice summation. But, don't you remember when I suggested we should ban the h-word for February posts? LOL

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | February 5, 2008 01:30 PM

Thanks Jack, well said! Long live Peta, NFL and well of course Jack!!

Posted by: Carla | February 5, 2008 01:44 PM

CC MD... YOU STATE THAT MOST OF PETA CANNOT BE THOSE WACKY PEOPLE... WELL LETS LOOK AT THEIR ILLUSTRIOUS LEADER:
INGRID NEWKIRK WHO HAS BEEN QUOTED AS COMPARING JEWS WHO DIED IN THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS TO BROILER CHICKENS. AND WHO HAS ALSO STATED THAT SHE WOULD BE AGAINST A CURE FOR AIDS IF IT WAS DERIVED FROM ANIMAL RESEARCH AND FAMOULSY STATING HOW YOU AND I, PEOPLE COMPARE TO A RAT OR DOG... WELL GUESS WHAT, I LOVED MY DOG AND I DON'T LOVE ANY RATS BUT MY FAMILY WOULD TAKE CENTER STAGE OVER ANY ANIMAL.....

Posted by: COMMON SENSE STEVE | February 5, 2008 04:10 PM

Steve, calm down, take a breath, I don't agree with Ingrid either, but as the Queen Petaphile she has an obligation to be very outspoken. I am sure she would be equally offended at a sale barn or beef industry conference. I think her point of view is very different from mine, but it isn't evil or harmful. I just don't agree with a lot of it. I try to understand it FROM her point of view. Then perhaps we can work something out. I don't hate her because she has bad taste or isn't tactful, but to answer with the same tactic is no better (we're all guilty of this).

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | February 5, 2008 04:34 PM

No-common-sense-steve, if you don't want to "listen to hypocrites who cannot stand by the total peta agenda", then why the fuck are you on this site in the first place? This is further evidence that you have no common sense...

And to anyone who wants to criticize PETA and its supporters for being "wacky" - well, we are certainly radical and outspoken, and are willing to dress up in crazy costumes and hand out leaflets while being subjected to verbal (and possibly physical) abuse - this is all for the sake of the animals, and if you have any sense of how things have changed in our Society over the centuries, any significant social change has come from groups of people who were labelled "wacky", "crazy", "radical", etc. I'm talking about things like the suffrage movement, the abolition of slavery, and the civil rights movement in the US.

Posted by: Michele | February 5, 2008 04:50 PM

Oh my dear Jack - thank you for being sooo generous with our good old Steve - but we are turning around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around - just because ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL MAN CANNOT AND DOESN'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!So sad - and boring!

Posted by: windwalker | February 6, 2008 09:36 AM

Congratulations, Steve, you finally got Dr. C to say nice things about PETA.
Thanks Dr. C. You're right, PETA is making changes, and I'm glad you're still around. Discussion isn't very effective without representatives from all sides of an issue.

Posted by: Spay and neuter immediately, please | February 6, 2008 11:12 AM

"The creator of the campaign (Holocaust On Your Plate exhibition), Matt Prescott, who is Jewish and lost several relatives in the Holocaust, told The Guardian: "The very same mindset that made the Holocaust possible — that we can do anything we want to those we decide are 'different or inferior' — is what allows us to commit atrocities against animals every single day. ... The fact is, all animals feel pain, fear and loneliness. We're asking people to recognise that what Jews and others went through in the Holocaust is what animals go through every day in factory farms." The project's website cited Jewish Nobel laureate Isaac Bashevis Singer, who wrote of animals: "In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

An interesting article entitled "Should the Mistreatment of Animals Be Compared to the Holocaust?" by Dr. Richard Schwartz is available at jewishveg.com:

http://www.jewishveg.com/schwartz/holocaust.html

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | February 6, 2008 11:42 AM

Thanks Mike! I'm going to get that one to read, sounds interesting!

Posted by: Carla | February 6, 2008 02:03 PM

Saying all peta members aren't wacky zealots is not exactly "nice," but thanks anyway.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | February 6, 2008 02:08 PM

what does this have to do with the ethical treatment of animals?

Posted by: josie | February 6, 2008 04:56 PM

Uh Josie, did you even check out the link/video???? Michael Strahan is helping to educate people about the abuse/neglect suffered by dogs who are kept chained all day. I'd say that IS related to the ethical treatment of animals. Duh!

Posted by: Michele | February 6, 2008 10:14 PM

How can you support the NFL when it's impossible to be beefy enough (excuse the pun) to play football without eating meat...? I don't believe there is a single vegetarian in the NFL... I hope this comment will be posted; and that "Big Brother" ((you may need to be approved by the site owner)) doesn't decide to kill a valid point that I would like to see debated on this site.

Posted by: Common-sense-toasty | February 7, 2008 09:20 AM

http://www.goveg.com/vegetarian_athletes.asp

Though I have to admit, "Toasty" does have a point...Ricky Williams is the only football player on your list. And track-and-field stars aren't known for being "beefy." Could you possibly solicit some NFL players that are vegetarian and encourage them to talk about their diet?

If they were linebackers that would be even better!

Posted by: BullyDawg | February 7, 2008 10:56 AM

Can we stop comparing the Holocaust to the meat industry's animal slaughter. You may be able to draw correlations between the two, however you can not draw any comparisons.
Hitler and the Nazi thugs wanted to erase the entire Jewish population off the face of the earth. They did it out of hate! Hate is the key word here. Man doesn't kill animals out of hate, they do it out of necessity and food!
The Jews, gypsies, mentally retarded, and gay people where singled out by the Nazis for anhilation. Humans do not want to wipe out animals, we want to keep them around for our benefit. To compare what happens to animals to what happened to the people involved in the Holocaust is disrespectful to the victims and the families of the victims.
Just because one Jewish man claims there is a similarity, hardly suggests that is the way all Jewish people feel.

Posted by: Kurt K | February 7, 2008 11:28 AM

To Common, I can't fight those beefy men all to change there ways but I still enjoy watching football, hockey, baseball, basketball, soccor, tennis, golf can I go on... That would be me against a whole army the size in population of Canada!

Posted by: Carla | February 7, 2008 12:08 PM

Common-sense-toasty,
There are vegetarians in the NFL. I can't name them because I don't really care who they are. It's "Big Brother's" blog, a private entity, who can decide whether or not to post your comment. You will not get far here if you glibly try to catch Petaphiles in a lie. They have done their research, biased as it may be, and they will have quick rebuttal. If you want to debate an issue such as vegan vs. omnivore nutrition, you'd better be armed with more than a notion or they will quickly cram it down your throat because I doubt you have read about veganism as much as they have. Eating meat is not your hobby, not eating meat is theirs, so get ready. Healthy debate is productive and fun, but people who bring a knife to a gunfight don't last long on this blog. Just because these people don't eat meat doesn't mean they don't like football, it just means they have very different tail-gaiting parties.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | February 7, 2008 12:17 PM

Okay people......lets nip this in the bud. All "hypocritical" remarks aside, let's face it. This world is loaded with "meat eaters". Always has been......Always will be. From the human race all the way down to the smallest insect. The difference though "PETA haters" is the WAY we do it. In the wild at least the "prey" is killed quickly and without malice. For us humans though we have to create veal, pate, and other "tantilizing" dishes. In other words we torture what we eat. We as "the superior species" are the only living creature on this planet that tortures its food, does painful torturous experiments on other living creatures for vanities sake, and slaughters other living creatures for their own misfortune of being born with a fur coat, again, for vanities sake. I'm extremely grateful for PETA. They lend a voice to those who can't speak for themselves, and when a guy like Michael Strahan speakes out, it makes the world seem a little bit better. And not just for us.

Posted by: Kimberle | February 7, 2008 02:23 PM

Common-sense-toasty,

I don't really follow the NFL, but apparently Tony Gonzalez is veg.

Joe Namath, Desmond Howard, Fred Dryer and Lawrence Phillips are former vegetarian football players.

Probably some players are getting a little help from their chemistry set in bulking up. Being bulky does not necessarily equate to good health or fitness.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | February 7, 2008 03:32 PM

Kurt K: you are dramatically wrong if you think that people don't kill animals for pleasure: don't you know anything about bullfights, dogfights, cockfights and you should go undercover to a slaughterhouse or a laboratory! what do you think why these people 'work' there? the animals, these innocent martyrs are exposed to barbaric criminal sadists! i know what i'm talking about! i'm an undercover and we got secret videos from laboratories where these inhumane rascals mocked about the bleeding helpless creatures! and in slaughterhouses they cut the testicles of the male animals when they are still alive and fully conscious just for pleasure! i know even a case where a two-legged beast put his cigarette in the eye of a calf! should i continue? i'm full of rage and hatred and a misantrope because i saw too much horror - the rest i was told by hans ruesch! every killing of every living being is a holocaust and murder and if the two-legged beast doesn't get it this shall go on and on and on and on and on and on....................

Posted by: ANIMAL LIBERATION | February 7, 2008 05:02 PM

Thanks Kimberle!

Posted by: Carla | February 7, 2008 05:28 PM

And to Mike for all his informative information! Thank-you!!

Posted by: Carla | February 7, 2008 05:30 PM

Kurt K,
Would the Holocaust have been justifiable if the groups you mentioned had been kept around, bred and tortured for the benefit of the Nazis?

Posted by: elphaba | February 7, 2008 06:41 PM

Kurt,

The comparison (Holocaust to "meat" animals) is not made from the point of view of the oppressor—the comparison is made from the POV of the oppressed.

Christopher,

Don't BS about Jack censuring an anti's post. We all have had comments sucked into the black hole, due in large part, I believe, to technical difficulties. If you feel your voice is not always being heard, start your own website or patronize one more aligned with your beliefs.

By the way, you mentioned before you would be visiting this site less often anyway since, by your assessment, PETA was no immediate threat to your lifestyle. Change of mind?

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | February 7, 2008 06:46 PM

Animal Lib
I am not naive enough to say that there are not some people in this world that are sick and get their pleasures off of torture. Furthermore, I find that kind of treatment disheartening and vile. I think that crap should stop, I don't condone that kind of behavior.
However, you can't be naive either. You can't honestly think that every person that works in the meat industry is a blood thirsty glutton. Or do you?
I grew up in a farming area and I recently moved back there after living in Indianapolis. I have known many farmers who raised pigs, cattle, turkeys and chickens. These people are by no means in the business for the pleasure of death. In fact it is quite the opposite, they do it for their livelyhood. For them it is generational; their fathers and grandfathers taught them how work the land and use the animals for food.
I don't know where you are from and I don't want to guess. I think if you could get to know these people, you would understand what they do and you wouldn't hate them at all!

Posted by: Kurt K | February 7, 2008 07:12 PM

Well put Michele. (You said that any significant social change came from people labelled wacky, crazy, radical.) It takes guts to stand out as different to oppose entrenched injustice.

Posted by: lynda downie | February 8, 2008 01:50 AM

Kurt K: thanks for your reaction! even if i respect your position and saw farming people treating animals nicely - there is still an overwhelming majority of abuse! i shall discuss this with you later on - for the moment i'm on the hot spots 'cockfighting' and 'KKK'! i think they need me there!

Posted by: ANIMAL LIBERATION | February 8, 2008 12:01 PM

Kurt,

How many small family farms were still operational when you returned?

The people running factory farms may not be inherently cruel, but cruelty is built into the system. Which always comes first—humane treatment of animals or maximized profit?

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | February 8, 2008 12:29 PM

Lynda, Mike Q, elphaba, Animal Liberation, Carla, BullyDawg, et al, thank you for continuing to post your thoughtful, compassionate comments. We must keep responding to the anti's so that the "fence sitters" reading these blogs will have a chance to learn more about animal rights, and to realize that PETA and its supporters are passionate about this cause, and that we do not back down when someone makes lame-ass attempts to criticize us.

Posted by: Michele | February 8, 2008 12:42 PM

Elphabe
Nice loaded question. I can't answer either way can I. If I say no, you will tell me that animals are treated this way all the time. If I say yes, then I am a psychotic Nazi.
I guess my answer is no, there is never a justifiable reason to attempt genocide of a particular group of people. But, the Jews, gypsies, mentally handicaped, gay, etc., where humans, not animals. They were killed out of hatred and ethnic cleansing practice. They were not used for food now, where they. There deaths didn't benefit humanity at all!
This why you can't compare the Holocaust to the "plight of the animals."

Posted by: Kurt K | February 8, 2008 12:52 PM

Kurt, you don't call holding the lives of animals as so much meat hatred? And some of us don't think eating the corpses of animals is beneficial to humanity.

Posted by: lynda downie | February 9, 2008 02:41 AM

Mike Q
Actually all the farms where there when I came back. I really haven't heard of any that went under. The last time I checked, not many farmers are overly rich. They may make a good living some years, but they have to save in case of a string of bad years. So yes, farmers do try and maximize profit when possible, but they do it to protect their families.

Lynda, I didn't understand you question. Could you rephrase it? And many more of do think that eating animal meat is beneficial!

Posted by: Kurt K | February 10, 2008 05:47 PM

Lynda's right, Kurt. The deaths of animals don't benefit humanity any more than the Holocaust of humans did. I hope that the day comes when your grandchildren ask you if you remember the animal holocaust, and what you did to stop it.

Posted by: Spay and neuter immediately, please | February 11, 2008 09:41 AM

Spay and Neuter
I can gaurantee my grandchildren will not ask me such a question. I will teach my children what I have learned and they will teach their children what they have learned. Hopefully by then people will have reached some kind of agreement that will satisfy both sides!

Posted by: Kurt K | February 11, 2008 04:36 PM

Kurt,

A small family farm has the potential to be somewhat humane, but in an industrialized factory farm setting that possibility is non-existent. I'm glad your area still has family farms, but from what I've read they're disappearing at an alarming rate.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | February 11, 2008 05:03 PM

Kurt
You make a good point that annihilation of Holocaust victims was the aim of Nazis, whereas for animals, it's the opposite-proliferation for exploitation. But the parallel is that in both cases, the lives of human and non-human victims are held in contempt by their oppressors. It's not the individual nature of an animal that's valued and esteemed. That's stripped away(ie.debeaking,caging,etc)if it interferes with meat production. And similar to Spay and neuter immediately's post, I think the Nazis too mistakenly thought they were benefitting humanity by 'cleansing' the world of undesirables.

Posted by: lynda downie | February 12, 2008 01:34 AM

Thanks Michele. I love your posts. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: lynda downie | February 12, 2008 01:45 AM

Thanks Michele. You're absolutely right--the only way to change hearts and minds and achieve animal liberation is to educate, educate, educate--irritating as it may be to deal with some people.

Posted by: elphaba | February 12, 2008 03:35 AM