I just love Mac....we watched every episode of this show:) Hope this will help ease that Vegan's are all weak stereo-type Mac is no weakling that is for sure. I hope that he continues to do well in this sport...and I hope it opens some of the closed minds that being a Vegan does not make you any less of a man.............

Posted by: Dana | December 12, 2007 11:38 AM

Great interview with Mr. Danzig (Thanks, Mac). Check out the link in the article to Mike Mahler—another great vegan strength athlete.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 12, 2007 12:34 PM

Mac Danzig! Another good looking man I never knew was a vegan!! This is great news! People who look up to him will see you don't have to contribute to the cruelty treatment of animals these days to look this hott!!

Posted by: Carla | December 12, 2007 01:08 PM

Best of luck to Mac next month. I am hoping he will be triumphant!!!! He already is as a vegan animal advocate. Another hot vegan man!!!!!

Posted by: Ana | December 12, 2007 01:28 PM

Wow! Powerful video. It really drives home the message that vegan men are definitely not 'girly men', not by a long shot.

For me, there's nothing sexier in a guy than knowing he's compassionate toward animals.

Posted by: V. Soto | December 12, 2007 04:35 PM

Mac gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "fighting for animal rights". Mac also puts a choke hold on all the lame human arguments about why they might need to eat animal flesh by providing the evidence that you do not need a diet based on the flesh of the dead to be strong, fit, intelligent and well ...to be tough! Not that we vegans need a tough guy to make our point in having compassion towards the other animals who do not want to be eaten. But having a tough guy in our corner as they say, who also has compassion is very nice indeed! It also shows all the macho men out there how unnecessary it is to eat animals to be tough! Strength comes in many many forms and in many places as well. I see strength in not eating animals for ethical reasons and going against the grain of our animal killing culture. Having a vegan role model who kicks ass in the ring against other human animals is a nice balance to always having our side kick ass in the philosohical debate forums!
I say...Fight each other (in the cage) and leave the animals alone! Had Mr. Vick been fighting himself or other willing human participants in a cage he would not be sitting in one today against his will!!!!!

Posted by: Philip | December 12, 2007 05:30 PM

You told him to

Posted by: Caboose | December 12, 2007 07:12 PM

Rojo,

You are finding a false since of security with the word pasteurization with just a little research you might find that even though its purpose is to remove harmful bacteria from milk it also can only be heated to a certain temperature before curdling. So basically you have a product made up of pasteurized pus...Also pasteurization comes with many side effects...they are now linking the process to autism. The pasteurization process turns casein into a very dangerous molecule that can further precipitate brain injury. Raw milk would be a better alternative maybe if we did not live in modern times...but now raw milk can not be used as a better alternative due to its source of harmful bacteria such as those that cause undulant fever, dysentery, salmonellosis, and tuberculosis. I find it funny that some of you just do not see the problem associated with dairy & meat...anything that has to be heated at high temperatures to remove harmful things has no place in my system. When you have to treat meat like a stick of dynamite from the moment it enters your grocery bag...until it is finally heated to what the USDA says is a safe temperature then I don’t need to eat....if it is that unsafe before cooking there is a problem....WAKE UP!

Posted by: Dana | December 14, 2007 11:58 AM

Dana,

You're right on with the autism connection. Some friends of mine have an autistic 4-year old. They recently eliminated dairy and gluten-containing grains. He's now drinking soy and rice milks. They describe the effect of removing the offending foods as a veil being lifted off their son.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 14, 2007 07:12 PM

Mike

Not everyone would be autistic from dairy. (Deoxyribonucleic acid)

Posted by: Caboose | December 14, 2007 09:48 PM

Caboose,

I'm sure not everyone, but eliminating dairy turned the trick with their son.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 15, 2007 03:15 PM

I don't know ... the Native Americans killed and ate animals - are we going to demonize them? And as well, cases of autism and obesity, etc never entered into this country untill such things as high fructose corn syrup and video games were introduced. Before we lambast hunters and the like, maybe we should lambast whoever introduced the demon ingredient 'high fructose corn syrup' and Nintendo!

DOWN WITH THEM FIRST!

Posted by: C.J. | December 16, 2007 12:37 AM

Caboose,
Unless you live underneath a rock you know that the rise in autistic children is unbelievably high, and research is certainly linking the problem to the dairy industry. Results such as what Mike described in his post are not a one time thing there are many more stories out there for you to read with the same ending results...You will also find stories as I spoke of above where people are trying to turn to raw milk, but unfortunately the dangerous are no less. I will agree with you that not everyone will suffer from autism from drinking milk, but keep in mind not everyone will stay as skinny as the guy off of the movie “super size me” did that has consumed over 19,000 big mac’s.

Posted by: Dana | December 16, 2007 12:39 AM

Dana,
Re: 12-14 @11:58am
Thanks for taking the time to write a very informative post with a broad view and also adding a thought-provoking example: "...stick of dynamite..." As always, I enjoy reading your posts because you include facts, reasonable logic, and common sense.

Posted by: Ariel | December 17, 2007 07:14 AM

dana, sorry for the delay, it would help if you wrote to me on a post I actually visit. I could care less if some "hero" I've never heard of sprukes veganism. Anyway I digress, and ended up here somehow.

You say raw milk would be better, how? I grew up drinking raw milk straight from the bulk tank and can attest to having no illness from it, but maybe you mean because modern day people don't have the same exposure to microbes and pathogens they wouldn't be able to handle raw milk. I'd agree. I'd still be interested in knowing how it would be better.

If you think its funny heating meat and milk for safety, you must be splitting your sides that WATER is treated with chemicals prior to coming out of your taps. Unless like me you live too far out of town, and have rainwater tanks.

I see you making some ambiguous statements with casein linked to autism. I'd be happy to read any study you provide showing such a link. Of course you're aware that it doesn't cause autism but removing casein and gluten from the childs diet anecdotally improves behaviour. Unfortunately a clinical trial did not show any significant difference(their words) by removing casein or gluten, even though the parents thought there was.
Obviously with corroboration like Mikes, there has to be something to it.

Some interesting info on raw milk, and a brief reference to autism, "myth 9" here:
www.cfsan.fda.gov/~acrobat/milksafe.pdf

Posted by: rojo | December 17, 2007 07:54 AM

Like most things, we all react differently to the ingestion or avoidance of a given substance, but...

"Preliminary findings from that study which showed 95 percent of 81 autistic and schizophrenic children studied had 100 times the normal levels of the milk protein in their blood and urine have been presented at two international meetings in the past year but have not yet been published.

When these children were put on a milk-free diet, at least eight out of 10 no longer had symptoms of autism or schizophrenia, says Dr. J. Robert Cade, a professor of medicine and physiology at University of Florida’s College of Medicine and inventor of the Gatorade sports drink. His research team includes research scientist Dr. Zhongjie Sun and research associate R. Malcolm Privette."

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 17, 2007 01:32 PM

CJ,
This is the year 2007, so how the Native Americans survived nutritionally many moons ago is out-dated. Since then, civilzation and medical science has progressed - at least concerning food/beverage-related illnesses. So surely you must know that your mention of demonizing the N.A.s is a pointless example. And other than that, you often seem to raise issues on this blog site that are unrelated to a/r's issues, but the same might do well otherwise on blog sites pertaining to those issues.
A general comment about this milk "debate." If anyone is resistant to learning about the discovered facts concerning milk being harmful -which some facts are not new- then so be it. But since more and more people have been learning and realizing the harmful effects of milk, they turned to drinking soy milk in significant numbers. The dairy industry felt so $$$$$$ threatened by this, that they bought out "Silk" brand soy milk. (perhaps others as well)

Posted by: Ariel | December 17, 2007 01:44 PM

Dana

But I have a different GENETIC structure, so whats bad for someone may not be bad for me.

Posted by: Caboose | December 17, 2007 04:11 PM

mike Q, interesting quote, but that was made nearly 10 years ago, surely they've published it by now.

I guess this is where the myth(or truth) began.

ariel, if the facts were always plausible, or actual facts and not bias interpretations/ambiguous links, then people may actually listen.

At least make it credible. And substantiated.

As to milk companies bringing out soy products, I agree it's about money, vegan money is as good as anyones. Fear, or smelling a dollar?

So far the main drawback with milk in studies has been related it's high energy level, mainly from saturated fat. Especially in conjunction with a high calorie diet.

I don't hear people calling for the removal of grains from the diet because some are intolerant to gluten, or it's association with autism.

Posted by: rojo | December 17, 2007 11:11 PM

Rojo,
I am very sorry that I ended up posting to you in the wrong forum..this was the mistake of me being very busy, but wanting to get a point across...I decided that the best way to deal with you at this point is just to give you the cold hard facts:

Pasteurization/Homogenization

Pasteurization came about in New York City in the mid-1800s as a result of the “swill dairies”..which were part of the America’s turn of the century meat packing industry. The swill dairies were the inevitable result of confluence of human ignorance, greed and incompetence. The City’s liquor distilleries started feeding left over grain to the cities urban cows that were housed in the city. The conditions these cows were in was horrible, and unfit for human consumption ...Under these conditions death, and disease were inevitable. Pasteurization was the answer to all of these problem, and in turn extended the shelf life of milk. So then once the shelf life was extended instead of helping the problem like it was intended to do it became like everything else just a new way to make the general public feel safe while racking in the money. Now farmers no longer had to toss out their quickly spoiled milk to their own farm animals..it could now be transported for many miles. The end result like everything else that revolves around money are the side affects of pasteurization to the general public. What do you expect when you go and try to prolong the life of a product that is only suppose to last for a few days all in the name of greed?

Raw milk for sure gets more rave reviews with a lot of doctors...the problem here is that unless you have your very own dairy cows, and you feed them what they are suppose to eat, and not what ever feeds more & cost less...there is no way for you to be sure that raw milk is not contaminated with harmful bacteria...I would assume that if you did feed, and house these animals in a humane way that the out come of the milk would be a better benefit..however the reality of this is the vast majority of Americans are not able to do this for the simple reasons of time, finances, and owning land. So the persons looking to purchase raw milk from a dairy farm or the grocery store are their only options! There is no way to know on a dairy farm unless you live there what these animals are fed on a daily bases..where the dairy farmer is cutting cost. The more the demand for raw milk increase the worse the milks quality will be for our motto here in America seems to be profitability over safety. Raw milk dairy farms even advertise that after the milk spoils it is still however safe to drink when back in the 1800s milk that spoiled was given to the farm animals due to the fact it was no longer fit to drink.

The cold hard truth of all of this is when you break it down into reality we are just not designed to drink milk no matter raw or pasteurized you are still running into the added cholesterol that this puts into your body...each of us are born with a certain amount with cholesterol already in our bodies, but when you keep adding more and more you start to see higher levels of cholesterol in our bodies it is common sense really when you keep adding cholesterol to systems that already contain small amounts your levels will rise higher which is proven to be dangerous...just look at the large amounts of Americans that have health problems that can lead to heart attacks due to high cholesterol... If you want proof of this why not pick up Dean Ornish’s book you will find that by placing patients on a mostly vegan diet he has been able to reverse heart disease with most success being found in those with the more saver blockages. He is the only doctor that’s diet plan is now covered by blue cross & blue shield due to its success rate, and the ability to save the insurance company billions of dollars. Rojo even if I provide you with every link from every doctor linking dairy to autism you will never make the connection in your mind for you are one of the many out there that refuse to believe that what we say could possibly be true, and no matter how much information we provide you with your mind is a brick wall. The day is coming sooner than you hoped that the world we start to realize that you can no longer deny the link between our diseases to the meat & dairy industries. The latest research show the link to lung cancer to beef, and pork its time to get with the program or you may end up being one of the cases they so often talk about. Also keep in mind that any link that you want any of us to look at from the FDA will certainly not be taken seriously.

CJ~~~ I certainly agree with you on your concern of video games, and corn syrup...but I do not however agree with you on native Americans for they did not have diary cows most of the native American population is lactose intolerant...the only race that has the highest rate of non lactose intolerance is Caucasian. You also need to keep in mind that our ancestors that did consume meat and dairy did not have very high life spans the only difference in the modern day world is not matter what problems you may suffer from there is technology the ability to keep you alive longer.....it may not enhance your life or make you more active but it will keep you alive which is why I say we are now a world that is not living longer we are in fact just dying longer. You also have to keep in mind when talking about obesity that cows milks whole purpose is to turn a calf into a 450 lb cow so how can drinking it not add to our obesity rate? Are we suppose to be 450lbs?

Ariel~~~I love reading your post too you are very informative and a great advocate for animals everywhere:)

Posted by: Dana | December 18, 2007 10:19 AM

Rojo,

Gluten has been implicated with autism along with dairy (and my friends did remove gluten-containing foods from their son's diet also), but there are grains one can eat that do not contain gluten (brown rice, quinoa, millet, amaranth, buckwheat, etc.)

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 18, 2007 07:39 PM

dana, I'm sorry you think I'm close-minded. I don't post without at least some knowledge, or without research. That doesn't make me right, and I'm able to take it when I'm wrong.

Since we don't keep cows in hermetically sealed houses quality feed will not eliminate pathogens from the milk. Pasteurised milk certainly tastes different than raw, and that might be why people buy it, but I can't see how it's better for you. Certainly riskier.

You don't have to provide all the links, just one recent one that comes from a mainstream medical journal, published study or basically any site that doesn't have veg or milksucks in the title. Don't worry, I treat pro-anything sites with equal disdain.

I thought your FDA was a respected body, as our equivalent is. My apologies.

Posted by: rojo | December 19, 2007 12:07 AM

mike Q, you are of course right, I should have said certain grains.
I guess part of my thinking is that you can't condemn a product(milk, peanuts, wheat...) simply because it does not suit all people, otherwise our choices would be few.

Like I said there has to be something to the dairy/gluten link in autism, and perhaps it is individuals within the group that respond. I just couldn't find a study to back it up.

Dana, on the 450lbs, calves drink 8-10 quarts(litres) a day. I'd be suprised if many humans consumed much over half a quart/day. People have to remember whole milk contains more calories than softdrink, and drink it accordingly.

If I were diagnosed with cardio-problems I certainly would look at Ornishs diet. But how much of the "cure" is a result of meditation and exercise, not just diet?

The body manufactures cholesterol too, your level goes up and down. If you have a high level then you would want to do something about it.
Simple message is all things in moderation.

Posted by: rojo | December 19, 2007 08:15 PM

Rojo,
I have provided you with a few links that you might find interesting on this subject due to the fact there is no reason these articles in these links have anything to do with Milk Sucks. From my understanding to answer your question Pasteurization presents the problem due to the Casein that is added during Pasteurization that is not found in raw milk. So there is more of a difference than just taste....

As for the FDA if you have read the comments in this forum in the past at all you will find all of the reasons that American’s are not happy with there work...The FDA & the USDA are both responsible for food safety the amount of recalls on food in this country are astounding. Then take a look at the amount of medical drugs recalled, then browse on over and look at the amount of household products recalled....you will then find out why most of us do not put much stock in the safety of products just because the FDA says a product is safe. In turn I do not trust articles from government organizations telling me that products are safe for they have tried to assure me of that on many of products through out the years that turned out not to be safe at all. The FDA & the USDA are bought out with meat, dairy, pharmaceutical , and animal research labs so anything they try to assure you is safe is based off of greed, not safety.

http://www.mercola.com/2003/jul/2/pasteurized_milk.htm

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/health/article.aspx?storyid=75387

http://www.ridgea2.co.nz/a2_promo_31aug07.pdf

Posted by: Dana | December 20, 2007 08:09 AM

dana, i'll take your word on the FDA. It was an interesting link though. Quite in-depth. I would say that if their intent is other than food safety, why make recalls at all?

I really need a study of scientific merit. Dr Mercola merely perpetuates the "dangerous casein molecule" theory, but doesn't provide a reference either, only that "I have come to realise".

Perhaps Ms Miles is correct in your second link, in her postulation that it could be an allergy, which would explain why not all autistic children respond to a gluten/casein free diet. Gluten and casein are "extremely similar" molecules, which is why they are eliminated together.

Raw milk contains casein(the protein), the debate regarding autism is on whether it is changed by pasteurisation.

There has been debate on the A1 and A2 protein in NZ, in particular the validity of the claims. According to this link there are "100s" of papers out there, so why are they so hard to find.

I'll take this oppotunity to wish you and Mike Q a Merry Christmas, thankyou both for forthright discussion.
I'm assuming Jack will have a few deserved days off over the festive period.

Posted by: rojo | December 21, 2007 06:41 AM

Rojo,

A Merry Christmas to you and yours, too!

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 21, 2007 12:17 PM

Rojo,
My final thought on this subject is this....I think that it would do you good to read books by John Robbins he was the hair to the Baskin Robbins fortune, but turned it down...walked away for he did not want to be a part of anything that may be doing that much damage to other people. He is very informative not pushy....The Food Revolution, and Healthy at 100 are both books I think you should really read. You can also find some of his speeches on youtube.

I think the whole recall system is screwed up first we must do inhumane tests on animals that turn out to not guarantee anyone’s safety....and due to the amount of recalls this statement is proven. The problem they have found with all these recalls is that it is not normally a problem that the USDA or the FDA finds on their own it takes someone dying or getting really ill to alert them of a problem. Most recalls could be prevented with just better regulations, and more government control of these industries. But instead money has talked and the wrong people pull the strings...human safety is not placed over the all might dollar in any aspect of things any longer.

I as well hope that you have a Very Merry Christmas:)

Posted by: Dana | December 21, 2007 12:29 PM