This really was a truly disturbing video. I do applaud her for speaking out but it troubles me that it's only now. Has she just suddenly found it upsetting?

Posted by: Lynene Davies | November 27, 2007 05:42 PM

How sick and perverted can people be? Every prey animal deserves a fighting chance to escape a predator. That these sickos enjoy watching or betting on this garbage indicates there are some real wackos out there. I'm ashamed to belong to the same species.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | November 27, 2007 06:02 PM

First it was a so called f***** sport by the wealthy, English bunch! Pardon the languge but now we have it going on in the States for years now! Sick, sick, sick! What was the purpose again... to train their dogs for "WHAT" more penned hunting? Surely it's not legal to use hunting dogs for "sport" to kill wild animals like the fox living freely in the States or am I wrong!! Havn't these guys been through enough we have to pick on them for "sport" and their fur, leave nature alone and nature will take care of themselves without us intentionally inflicting more unnecessary causes!!

Posted by: Carla | November 27, 2007 06:09 PM

Great coverage Fox5news! Why is this legal? There's not any difference between dog fighting and fox penning. DNR/Ga. needs to do their job enforcing regulations. We have regular hunting periods, if we were hunt out of season, we would be fined/jailed. P.E.T.A., Please put a stop to this now.

Posted by: Henry C. Moody | November 27, 2007 06:49 PM

Fox penning. Dog fighting.

It is still Deliverance in these states.

Where are the educated people in Georgia? How do they tolerate this insanity?

Posted by: kelly | November 27, 2007 06:58 PM

You would think that the "sportsmen" hunters who claim to be such model citizens in their communities wouldn't want THESE outcasts representing them!

Makes them look psychotic. And like cowards.

Posted by: kelly | November 27, 2007 07:01 PM

first off our own government give animals illeagal drugs so that they may be able to find narcotics the same drugs they dont want people using but they give it to the same animals that they say are a law enfforcement officers(the dogs)they justify this by saying that we do this to train & expose the animals so they will know what to look for but what about the animals becoming addicted to the same drugs that we consider illegal do these law enforcement officers (the dogs)these are the same drugs that r killing our people tearing homes families apart so these r the same people that we depend on to bqlqnce justice to society how can we depend on these same people to up hold the law while they r breaking it the only way to get any real results to any of our animal problems is to correctthe justice system first yes people do abuse animals ITS WRONG but there is no excuse ton allow the police officers to get away with what their doing either

Posted by: rico | November 28, 2007 12:07 AM

are you all for real?

look we are human and far from prefect
we need to clean up are acts before we clean up the world
PETA is more then happy to brainwash you all

real poeple look into this stuff ,
and Mike Vick is using you as a way not to go to jail
bulls@$# i say
let him go to jail
and lets all do one thing is put PETA out of a job you guys are really sick puppys
having a dog show? come on now who is fooling whom

Posted by: peter | November 28, 2007 12:09 AM

"Oh-my-Jesus-christ-in-heaven!
Imagine if you got a death-row prisoner, and instead of pushing him up against a brick wall to be shot, you turned him loose in a pen and then left him to the guns. Over here in Australia idiot farmers like to shoot foxes, but this barbarity is too much for even THEIR bullet-cold hearts."

Posted by: Mystique Makepeace | November 28, 2007 02:09 AM

I saw this on the news last night and I was completely disgusted. I am outraged that this is legal!!! Why? This is no different than dogfighting. I actually think it is worse. These animals are being taken from their natural habitat to be hunted down by dogs! How is this a sport? I guess because there is a winner and a loser the latter being the fox or coyote!

DO SOMETHING NOW PETA!!!

Posted by: Netasha Dodson | November 28, 2007 07:53 AM

Georgia is living in the dark abyss of the 14th century. Deplorable!!!! The other animals never get a break and the human animals grows ever more immoral/amoral and quite frankly stupid and cruel. I agree with Mike Quinoa, his comment says it succinctly.

Posted by: anitagata@aol.com | November 28, 2007 08:57 AM

Peter, the sick puppies having the dog show?

That's AKC. The puppy millers abuse the dogs, AKC collects the registration money, and silly people have dog shows and fool around.

What an arrangement.

Posted by: kelly | November 28, 2007 09:12 AM

This is horrific, indeed, but it's not new. It's usually a "sport" of the rich and so-called powerful. There are entire "ranches" dedicated to hunting down wild "game" - including endangered species and elephants, giraffes, water buffalo, etc. These "ranches" are all over the U.S. You pay according to the rarity of the animal and the tab is sometimes prohibitive.(White rhinos, for instance, can be had for a hefty pricetag.)
Read the book "Dominion", written by Matthew Scully, a former speechwriter to the current President Bush, and you'll find out all about it. It's totally perverted and disgusting and there are people who pay upwards of $50,000.00 for the "privilege." The first President Bush, for example, has done this. The animal in question doesn't have a chance of escape, but the "hunter" gets his trophy and that's the point, as far as he's concerned. So, it's NOT just hillbillies and poor southerners. It's the rich and famous who really enjoy this "sport." And why is it tolerated? Well, what's the old adage: Money Talks? It's one of the many things done to animals that can make me ashamed to be human.

Posted by: Susannah S | November 28, 2007 09:43 AM

Penned hunting is a devolution from the original fox hunting here in the US. To those not familiar with this type of hunting, it would be easy to assume that penned hunts were developed to ensure a successful hunt. On the contrary, they were originally developed in an effort to keep the hounds from becoming lost or killed. I personally do not engage in these hunts, nor do I advocate them, but to those who do, they were somewhat forced into the pen by their neighbors who often would murder the hunting dogs that were lost. Good hounds are dear to their owner and expensive, so the hunters did what they had to do to preserve their dogs.

Once again, I do not advocate this type of hunting, but I thought some more information would be good.

kelly,
"Educated" people are not bigoted elitists like you. I don't know where you live, but I can guarantee that you live amongst your share of incestuous morons as they are ubiquitous. If I remember correctly, Michael Vick's crimes were not committed in GA, rather in VA, the same place that peta lurks. So I guess all the peta folks are also toothless inbreeds as well, according to kelly's logic.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 28, 2007 11:12 AM

Kelly,
Could not agree more with your posts.

Cockhead,
Please do all of the wonderful, compassionate and intelligent people here a huge favor and go take care of your pretend patients.
Jack, get rid of this clown,
please.....

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter for Animals | November 28, 2007 01:44 PM

Christopher Cochran, your posts have always been a loud advertisement for the fact that parts of this country are like a Third World.

Posted by: kelly | November 28, 2007 02:51 PM

I had a lady come to me with a water buffalo hide (I'm in the upholstery business) asking if she can get her ottoman upholstered with this skin of an animal. Looking obviously surprized but curious I asked her where in the world (no pun) did you get this from?? She responded happily, "my husband got it from Africa when he went down for his annual canned hunt". Well, well, well a canned hunt? You mean a for sure kill? Yes but no she told me it depends on the price. Okay it depends on the price so if you don't have too much money, you shouldn't be there, just a waste of time?! Well you came to the wrong shop, I told her we don't work with skins of animals nor the fur from animals in fact NOTHING to do with animals period. And to take the skin with her and to never come back or I'll call the police! Looking stunned and like a criminal she ran off!! True story! God help them!!

Posted by: Carla | November 28, 2007 03:04 PM

mystique, clever farmers shoot foxes in Australia too, and are more likely to do it for the right reasons like preserving our natural wildlife. Not just because they kill cute, adorable, baby lambs.

Posted by: rojo | November 28, 2007 04:34 PM

why is this "peter" guy allowed to be a member or even post??

HELLO! HE IS ANTI PETA!! come on, open your eyes peta!!

REMOVE HIM!!
jeez.

Posted by: Amber L. | November 28, 2007 07:21 PM

Hate humjan race shit....

i wanna be free!!!!!
im too am an animal

Posted by: cAROLINA | November 28, 2007 07:24 PM

I just cannot imagine a more brutal, perverse activity than terrorizing a wild animal in this way.

If they must be hunted, get a nice, clean shot and kill the wild animal instantly. Then eat it in order to reduce the number of animals in factory farms. Leave the dogs at home with loved ones.

I'm not giving my stamp of approval to hunting; but to those who must, I wish they would spare the wild animal any more terror and fear than is necessary.

Sending a dog to terrorize a wild animal is perverse.

Posted by: Maya | November 28, 2007 08:17 PM

That is very sad to think of a dog being murdered. The fox which is a small dog, was also murdered, lost and confused, just as the lost hunting dog was.
foxes are dear, and their lives are important to them, and their families, also to humans who enjoy catching a glimpse of them in the wild. foxes are secretive and shy.
Foxes, like all dogs, have excellent senses of smell, sight, and hearing, and they feel pain just as humans do. The female fox, or vixen, gives birth to four or five babies in spring. Baby foxes are called kits. Like all newborn "dogs", kits are blind and helpless at birth. Vixen are very good mothers.
In Pen hunting, the fox does not have a chance to escape. I cant imagine the fear the fox feels. And if the foxes that are used for pen hunting are human raised, then not only are they tossed to the dogs to die with no chance of escape, they also are betrayed by the humans who took care of them, fed them, maybe even talked to them, and were nice to them. No chance to learn their natural defences, which would not help them anyway if they are destined to die in a pen full of dogs who are trained to kill them. This must be stopped...

Posted by: Holly | November 28, 2007 09:46 PM

Sussanah

You know what else H.W did? He was the one who started this absurd war on terror, and made the happy muslims Very angry. He created the so called terrorist. And for what? Oil

Posted by: Caboose (Combine Slayer) | November 28, 2007 10:22 PM

I encourage everyone who is interested in this topic to read all of the comments on Randy Travis's blog. It is a tall order, I know, but there is some good information there about the sport that you can not get from the video. Randy uses the term "bloodsport" and compares foxhunting to dog fighting but I can tell you that is inaccurate.
Randy has been flooded with invitations from pen owners across the Southeast to come see for himself what the sport is about. He is currently working on a visit to a Georgia pen and if that doesn't work out he has promised to come to Alabama to see a real pen fox hunt from start to finish. The video he aired was set up by an undercover agent who lied to hunt officials. The men and women inside a pen during an event are required to do everything they can to stop any game from getting injured. Obviously, this cameraman did not do his job to prevent harm.
A foxhunter is every bit as emotionally devastated as a PETA member when the death of a fox or coyote occurs. We care for these animals (fox and hound) like our own children. We enjoy hearing the hounds chase a fox but we abhor the killing that was shown in Randy's report.
I understand that most PETA supporters disagree with the use of animals for human enjoyment, and that is a fair debate. I just want you all to understand that "penning" as you call it is not about fighting and killing. It is about finding the scent of a fox, trailing it, and following it around until it goes into its den. It is the most progressive form of "hunting" there is since we don't seek the death of the game we pursue. This sport is not related to fenced hunting preserves where a hunter pays to kill a stocked animal. Fox pen patrons are banned from the enclosure if their hounds are found to excel at injuring the game. Modern foxhunters are not a wealthy lot. We are more akin to the poor servants who cared for the hounds on behalf of the wealthy. We are animal lovers just like a lot of you. The main difference is in the degree to which we use animals to enrich our lives. We take a nuisance animal from the wild and allow it to have a positive impact on human lives. Many of you will say that isn't fair to the animal and it should be allowed to live free and have a negative impact on humanity if it so chooses. That is a valid opinion in a worthwhile debate. The carnage that Randy reported on is not an accurate picture of foxhunting and he is working on getting a more balanced look at the sport.

Posted by: Heath Howell | November 29, 2007 08:34 AM

Everyone who has posted here that is against this insane "sport," has expressed my thoughts and feelings as well -if not better. So instead of offering redundant comments in agreement, I will say that I really, really hope anti-animal rights' readers on this blog site will begin to realize what our movement is about -hopefully seeing the deeper, bigger picture of what it encompasses, instead of retaining pre-conceived negative conclusions, which tell of being drawn only from the surface of any previous animal-related issues/campaigns, or choosing to limit their knowledge.
This maniacal animal abuse situation clearly emphasizes our purpose as a/r/a's: the ANIMAL RIGHTS' movement is about justice and pursuing freedom for those -the animals who cannot speak for themselves- that are captured, mercilessly enslaved, abused, tortured, and/or killed for mankind's greed, vanity,"pleasures," or excuses.
Anyone who cannot realize this, or refuses to realize this, or thinks nothing of it, or finds excuses, or scoffs at it, should take the time to do some soul-searching, OR start to give the animal rights' movement some very serious positive thought because unfortunately this is the real world where too much of mankind -the so-called most intelligent species- stops at nothing, stops at no living sentinent being to conduct atrocities in one manner or another...and ultimately these atrocities and ALL killing negatively affects ALL of us through a ripple effect.

Posted by: Ariel | November 29, 2007 09:35 AM

its just cruel and horrible and thats all there is to say. Im ashamed that i come from the same species as these monsters.i swear people were the biggest mistake on this earth we keep destroying it until one day it will be no more maybe the human race should jus be wiped out and the world will belong to the animals once more

Posted by: Justine | November 29, 2007 11:56 AM

Looks like foxpenners like Heath Howell are a little nervous that their CRIMINAL businesses are getting exposed?

So they come here to offer the most ridiculous propaganda ever seen.

Wonder what other crimes these people are up to?

(And it was the federal government that initiated the investigation, by the way)

Posted by: kelly | November 29, 2007 01:44 PM

Heath,

My family has hunted with dogs for many generations and I know what you mean when you describe the love of a good "race." I have never gotten into fox or coon hunting with dogs as I only have time for so many hobbies and I prefer wingshooting, fishing and big game. I do love a good rabbit race or a good squirrel dog though. You will find that peta has a tendency to present a very biased point of view regarding such issues and you will likely receive a lot of bad feedback over your comments, but to you, I say, keep hunting.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 29, 2007 01:56 PM

Heath Howell your forms of "entertainment" is VERY frustrating!! Never the less you are taking a wild animal from the wild and using them for your sick, sadisic pleasures and we have a "BIG" problem with that!! I also find it very hard to believe these fox run along eventually making it to their makeshift den and the games over!! I think your missing some vital information there!

Posted by: Carla | November 29, 2007 02:27 PM

Ya'll need to get a life.... You have nothing better to do complain about how we hunt.. Ya'll act like you care so much about these animals and Im tired of hearing about it. So, why dont you do us all a favor and us about the PETA EMPLOYEES that were picking dogs up and killing them and dumping the bodies in dumpsters behind stores in Ahoskie Nc. Why didnt I see that on the news?? Maybe Randy could do a story on that........

Posted by: Fox Hunter | November 29, 2007 03:05 PM

Who cares? They are animals doing a natural instinct. You freaking PETA weirdos should do something about the homeless or starving children, but yet you decide to speak out about this BS. or against Butterball, who you idiots forgets drives the economy. they kill 50k turkeys a day, so we should let over 15 million turkeys just run all over the earth?

Posted by: mark Rinehart | November 29, 2007 03:13 PM

the whole world is full with hunting fishing animaltorturing corpseswallowing bullfighting cockfighting kosherkilling dogfighting hallalthroatcutting vivisectioning furbreeding and animalalivekilling abusers and criminal cocksuckers - but why in gods and the devils name have they always to open their stinking dirtmouth here on these blogs! i thought that this here is belonging to the animal lovers and not to some dirty hellbound bunch of castrated wallfuckers! i'm disgusted because i got this shitpeople also in my daily life: today when i entered the baker's shop in the village one old hag entered screeming that when she wanted to go down to the stable with her kitchen knife for to kill the chickens that the fox had already passed and killed them but some days ago she had 'exploded' one with her rifle! stoneage - stoneage - stoneage - stoneage in my village and here on this blog - utterly disgusting and stomacrevolting!

Posted by: QUESTIONMARK??? | November 29, 2007 03:14 PM

Christopher,

Biased point of view? You finally figured out that PETA is an animal rights organization?

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | November 29, 2007 04:32 PM

I';m a foxhunter and proud to say that! You won't to talk about killing animals OK! Human Society KILLS more dogs and cats in ONE WEEK than ALL the coyote and fox the foxhunters catch all year. And how about the PETA employees dumping dead dogs they KILLED behind a grocery store. If you to accuse lets see what around your door steps...

Posted by: hal cartee | November 29, 2007 05:40 PM

Animal rights activists and organizations like PETA bring attention to themselves to spread the word about the plight of animals all over this world.

People like Cochran and fox hunter bring attention to themselves because they constantly require validation. Stop asking why PETA and its supporters are making these statements and working toward ending animal abuse. You do not need to be on this site if you are not actually interested in learning about animal rights issues. It is pretty nervy of you to come on this site and criticize what we are doing.

For those of you who are actually interested in learning more about a variety of animal rights issues, watch the movie "Earthlings". Also, a great book on animal testing is "Sacred Cows and Golden Geese". I do not recommend them for anyone who is not actually open to change.

Posted by: Michele | November 29, 2007 06:10 PM

(Judith, QUESTIONMARK???, and Mike Quinoa, I hear all of you loud and clear!)

to the MODERATOR/PeTA:
It's beyond the point of being disgusting, obnoxious, and lame already to have the anti characters take up space on here with their worthless comments, AND it's a complete waste of time to even bother addressing them anymore.
Obviously they're not here to learn anything, but only to vent their stupidity and run. Others argue senselessly, and some go totally off the topic of animal issues.
IMPORTANT: We (a/r/a's) have enough to deal with in our daily personal lives. And we have MORE than enough to deal with concerning the animals. We should feel free to inter-act with each other on this blog site without being ridiculed by the anti's nonsense - and to teach caring, dignified people who are seriously interested in a/r's...for the sake of PROGRESS...for the sake of the ANIMALS!

Cochran has been starting to USE this forum as if he was an authoritative speaker by giving his approval to those who share his ANTI-a/r's beliefs, as well as continuing to mock a/r/a's. He and the other similar jokers are making a mockery out of the dignity and IMPORTANCE of the ANIMAL RIGHTS' movement. They are not here for a "good debate" or a good discussion -and they should seek blog sites that accommodate their own kind.
As one of the above a/r/a's once commented regarding the jokers: WE HAVE BEEN LOSING GOOD PEOPLE ON HERE. And I will add that some of the other non-a/r/a's are confusing the newcomers by giving the impression that they are offering a/r/a's beliefs. Therefore, I see this as a VERY SERIOUS matter that is in need of review and change for what is beneficial.
Perhaps you have reasons to see this differently, however, I see it past the point of being ridiculous already and harmful to what is SUPPOSED to be an ANIMAL RIGHTS' blog site.

Posted by: Ariel | November 29, 2007 07:45 PM

Mike,
I do not expect peta to be fair when presenting stories, but I do appreciate the blog owner allowing me to present a different point of view.

Judy,

When you lobby to have me banned from here, you stink of fear. So much for freedom, hypocrite.

kelly,
I'll take my part of the world over yours. Besides hating dog breeders, what makes you so civilized, bigot?

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 29, 2007 08:05 PM

QUESTIONMARK

Theyre not the only ones here with a dirty mouth. :/

Posted by: Caboose (Combine Slayer) | November 29, 2007 08:54 PM

Ariel,

I feel that I am right as much as you do and I want the people who think I am wrong to hear what I have to say. Just like when peta imposes it's will/exercises it's freedom by defaming private property or disrupting the peace with demonstrations of nudity because they feel so strongly for the cause. I know what it feels like to believe in something strongly. I eat, sleep, and breath wildlife, hunting and fishing. It is my passion. Some of the things peta stands for threatens my passion so I will continue to speak out. If the blog wishes to ban me so be it, I'll have more time to hunt and fish. Anyway, stop whining.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 29, 2007 11:39 PM

(Michele your comments weren't posted at the time of my writing, but I agree with you too!)

RE: Post 11-29-07, 8:05pm
A/r/a's KNOW opposing/different views VERY well. We were not born as vegs., nor as a/r/a's. Unless raised otherwise from childhood, we ate meat and animal-related products; most or all wore leather and/or fur; and some hunted/fished/attended circuses. The majority of us are past our teens and well into 20, 30, 40, 50, 60,70 years old. And some time during those ages, each of us learned about the animal rights' movement and abandoned all of the above habits, which we learned are cruel, wrong, destructive, and unhealthy.
So for what purpose do we need to keep being informed about staunchly opposing views on an ANIMAL RIGHTS' blog site -especially since we are continually surrounded by people who eat meat, wear leather, etc.?
To the contrary, those who offer their opposing views on here are the ones who "stink of fear." They fear the animal rights' movement because they fear education and knowledge about the TRUTH. So they have to lash out with nonsensical defiance and support it with name-calling as well: "hypocrit" and "bigot." (quotes per Cochran)
Ordinary common sense should tell anyone who doesn't like the info and comments by the a/r/a's on this blog site, and is not open-minded to learn, should not bother themselves to be concerned about it and comment on here.
Opposing views are NOT going to change a darn thing with a/r/a's and this movement!
And no, we are not closed-minded - quite the contrary. We have opened our minds more to the world around us, which the animal rights' movement has given us the VERIFIED and documented PROOF of the deep and vast realities that affects and effects ALL of us and OUR environment. Therefore -if never before -we have become more self-less and more conscienable towards ALL life.
But to the contrary, opposing views offer a lot of self-centered, narrow-minded "I's" -"I have to eat meat." "I have to hunt." "I don't see anything wrong with wearing leather/fur/ going to circuses..." ANIMAL LIBERATION WILL CONTINUE!

Posted by: Ariel | November 30, 2007 06:05 AM

...plus, what language r u speaking?

Posted by: Caboose (Combine Slayer) | November 30, 2007 06:32 AM

LOL at Ariel, again.

She watches a 4 minute PETA propaganda video and becomes an expert on farming,agri-buisness and hunting and those of us that have been doing those things all our lives are ignorant of how/why it's done.ROTFLMAO!

FYI, still waiting for you to post those animal rights.

Posted by: Mars | November 30, 2007 08:11 AM

ariel:
thank you so much for your exposee! i think that the time has come for to take a decision! since many days now a reflected on the question??? if i should continue posting here or not because the antibloggers are taking also ground here - not just in our daily lifes! they are people like millions out there but what makes this case bitter here is that they do not have this great understanding and feeling of peace among all creatures and are still living on an instinctive basis seeing the animals as a prey - we are so-called antagonists - avant-garde - who are living already in a higher developed future time together with all the great thinkers of this world! i wrote on this blog here in every kind of words: nicely, funny, sad, angry, dirty, lovely, intelligent, stupid and so on and under different camoufflage names but it is all useless! these people are coming back over and over again on every page with exactly the same talking which they think is ok because they don't have the antenna! if i have the antenna to receive cnn i can receive it - if not i don't receive it! in the same way this people have no antenna for to be one with the creation! hence they don't understand us and we cannot accept them anymore because we are not anymore on their level! this has nothing to do with intelligence! maybe an illiterate got this antenna and a professor not! you know what i mean and i know all you great people here and what's in your hearts: judith, kelly, kelley, mike quinoa, ana, suzanna and all the others but i miss the observer - and i fear that he lost his patience or was not posted anymore???? so i think if we are giving up here the yesterday's folk shall also run over this blog - not just the world and for this i decided to remain here with all my strength and to take one hour additionally every day just for to post here! and i do it for the animals because they deserve something better than what i have seen from many bloggers here before! and in the same way i hope that all you animalprotectors don't loose patience - yes patience - because it's this thing which the antibloggers are speculating with - that we let the blog for to be their prey! i know that the blogowner jack is still very young and i accept his decisions to post people like trapper mars and hunter cochran - but i have to admit that i start to doubt the real intelligence of these two antibloggers because until now they didn't get it that this here shall never be an animalrights blog with some hunting or some trapping or some little bit of vivisection but a clean animal rights site aiming to the vision which you and me are sharing and they don't even know about what i'm talking! so we have to encourage one another and let's continue the good fight - for the animals! thank you jack!

Posted by: claudia marrapodi | November 30, 2007 08:18 AM

hmmm lots of tension.... nobody is trying to stop anybodys rights to do whatever they choose. However it is also the right of the foxes/ rabbits/ deer to choose what they want to do, and as they run away, they DO NOT want to be killed.
Frankly it doesn't matter in the slightest that you want to hunt them, they don't want to be hunted so why do it? You have no right to take anothers life.
I might want to start hunting some big game- hunters. Think i'd be allowed? I think not... but the only reason i can't is that you very unreasonalby in my opinion, have human rights, decided by humans. Animals have no such right, as decided by huumans. This is highly biased, as it is controlled by us, or rather you, as i don't consider myself in the same pit that you hunters come from.
And the previous posts are right, this is for animal lovers we have enough problems trying to bring you to civilisation without you invading here.
And why do i know i'm civilised? Well i don't take anything elses right to life, i don't interrupt anything's life, except those who think they have divine right to take it themselves.
Civilised is compassion and empathy, i feel for you i do, maybe you don't have games consoles out there? Buy one, save some animals as they are not your sport, and they do not belong to you dead or alive.

Posted by: Heidi | November 30, 2007 09:07 AM

Ariel! You are always so true and take the words right out of our mouths, Thank-you!! Keep up the "Good Fight"!!

Posted by: Carla | November 30, 2007 10:45 AM

Thank-you, Heidi! As frustrating as it is, we can never lose HOPE!! "They" (anti's) are the cowards!!

Posted by: Carla | November 30, 2007 11:18 AM

Heath,

Hello. I want you to know that I welcome you to this blog wholeheartedly, and I do not mean any disrespect when I say this, but the only nuisance animal on this Earth is humans. Foxes and other animals contribute to the ecosystem.

If they've become overpopulated it's because of the fact that all their predators have been exterminated or extripated; hunting by humans is imperfect in regards to the process of natural selection, so it is a sorry replacement for predator-prey balance, and has stochastic elements as well.

For example, when some animals are hunted by humans and reduced in numbers, often the same animal moves into the available niche and/or the females will increase their brood size in order to compensate; so hunting often causes more of a population increase, not less.

And I will add, I welcome Dr. Chris :) and Foxhunter just as much. I would add, though, if I stepped into your house, I would never use profanities or insult you in order to make a point, so I ask that all dissenters kindly do the same.

I hope that Jack continues to post your comments, although some obscenity editing would be welcome. ;)

Posted by: Maya, Master's candidate, wildlife biology | November 30, 2007 01:44 PM

Carla, Heidi, Ariel, Mike, claudia, kelly, et al: As always, you have very succinct and passionate ways of describing the various animal rights issues.

As Ariel indicated earlier, the anti's who are posting here are the ones who are afraid - because they realize that animal rights activists and organizations are having a huge impact. They do not like the fact that there is objective proof that a vegan diet is healthier than a meat-based one. They do not like the fact that video technology is allowing the world to see what really goes on behind those closed doors of the slaughterhouses and research laboratories. They do not like the fact that their "hobbies" or other activities are now being more and more frowned upon, such as hunting, fishing, and dog breeding.

And so, they come up with childish responses, call us communists or "too literal", declare how meat is SO great (even as North Americans get fatter and fatter on their high-fat, fast-food "diets"), or tell us we are too emotional (that's one of my faves).

Yet, we continue to fight for the rights of those with no voice, because we are not doing this out of self-interest. We do not back down in the face of ridicule, and we get stronger every day. I love having this forum to connect with other humane earthlings, to learn from each other, and to keep motivating each other to continue our work.

Posted by: Michele | November 30, 2007 01:48 PM

Carla,

What on this blue/green earth is an anti? I looked it up, but I am still in the dark. I am pretty sure were all anti something.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 30, 2007 02:35 PM

Maya, thank you for the warm welcome!
When I used the phrase "nuisance animal" I only meant to say an animal that is traditionally considered undesirable by most of society. I agree that they are part of the ecosystem and have just as much intrinsic value as any other species. What I was saying is that they don't have much instrumental value and tend to have a negative impact on human lives. We use foxes and coyotes in the same way a farmer might use a mule. In that way, we take something that most of society considers useless and turn it into something useful. I know that is not much of an argument for most people on this blog but I just want us all to be sure about what our disagreement is over. I don't want anyone to think I am defending the brutal killing of an animal for enjoyment. I am defending the humane use of animals for the enrichment of human lives.

I will admit that humans aren't very good predators when it comes to keeping the prey populations in balance but I'd say we have the right to participate in the process. If the ecosystem can find a balance without human influence then it should be able to find a new balance with use included. We are part of the ecosystem.

I think you are right that the world would be a better place for all the other creatures if humans weren't around. At the same time, I imagine the other creatures would be as sad to see us go as we are when we realize another species has been lost forever.

Posted by: Heath Howell | November 30, 2007 03:56 PM

"but the only reason i can't is that you very unreasonalby in my opinion, have human rights, decided by humans. Animals have no such right, as decided by huumans. "

Exactly. Humans have Rights because WE say we do and fought for them.If animals want rights then they must do the same themselves. Giving something rights is admitting your superiority in order to do so.

"save some animals as they are not your sport, and they do not belong to you dead or alive."

Yes they do.

Posted by Michele;

"Yet, we continue to fight for the rights of those with no voice, because we are not doing this out of self-interest."

Doubtful.You are doing it for your interests not the animals.

Posted by: Mars | November 30, 2007 05:32 PM

Well said, Michele.

The internet and video evidence continues to build the case against animal-exploitive industries. The internet is, and will continue to be, a hugely unifying and rallying force in the AR movement, linking AR activists from around the world. Leonardo and George would be smiling.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | November 30, 2007 07:31 PM

The cowarly anti thing doesnt apply to me!

PETA's day of reckoning will come someday. And the less annoying ASPCA will be brought into full steam.

Michele
Its childish to u. Ive only mentioned "too literal" a few times, but i scrapped the notion. I am not ur typical fat, lazy, dumb american. We at Al-Qaeda are above that :D
Meat is great because we are able to enjoy it, and dont have weak stomachs, or disease. Howdo u th we able to see through the smoke and hit the american soldiers? Moderation :D

Posted by: Caboose | November 30, 2007 10:55 PM

Ariel,
You are one very amazing lady.
Everthing you write, I am in complete agreement.
I wrote Jack a letter about these moron hicks.
We are losing alot of good people.
These morons are the kind of people that get kicked out of their own families.
Who in the world would want to live with a BULLY? Not me.
We need to keep slaming letters to jack that we want our blog back.
Judith

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter for Animals | December 1, 2007 12:25 AM

For the sake of the ANIMALS, I sincerely thank all the a/r/a's who addressed my post with YOUR encouraging and supportive comments -which also always TRUTHFULLY and SELF-LESSLY covers a lot of IMPORTANT FACTUAL areas.
It's obvious that some of our posts rattled a couple of people (besides Cochran), to the point of babbling with their typically expected immature nonsense - and even a bit of egotistical, condescending game-playing. Pathetic.

For the sake of the ANIMALS, WE will continue to be a part of the STRENGTH for ANIMAL LIBERATION!

Posted by: Ariel | December 1, 2007 08:57 AM

Michele,

Almost no one eats a meat based diet. The world wide people eat grain based diets. The only meat based diet I can think of is that of the Inuit of AK and northern Candada. As it turns out, their incidence of DM2 and Coronary disease is almost zero.

Fortunately, their will be hunting and fishing long after you and I are dead.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | December 1, 2007 09:08 AM

posted by Heidi

" nobody is trying to stop anybodys rights to do whatever they choose. However it is also the right of the foxes/ rabbits/ deer to choose what they want to do, and as they run away, they DO NOT want to be killed."

Yep and the rabbit runs from the fox that will also kill it.

Posted by: Mars | December 2, 2007 06:44 PM

A few nights back our neighbor said he heard some sort of noise, didnt know what it was, but went out to see if somthing was wrong. We live in the country, and see lots of wild life every day. We see a beautiful red fox on a regular bases, rabbits who know my voice and deer who drink at the pond in the early hours before dawn. Most of our property is fenced in, so our dogs can run free and not bother the Amish farms near by. Its deer hunting season here in Pennsylvania. Turned out the sound our neighbor heard was a deer that had been shot, not killed, who hid in a thicket on the out side of our fence, where he died in pain. I hear there are 1 million hunters out in Pennsylvania this year. The deer who died here on the outside of our fence will not have been the only one who will be shot, yet not be killed and suffer and die, or suffer and live.
We heard a report of a hunter who died, he had fallen from a tree. Another hunter who shot him self in the foot.
I see the family of deer who come to drink at the pond act nervous, their were 6 deer in the group now we see only 4.
I pray that at some point this will stop. It seem like madness to me.

Posted by: Holly | December 2, 2007 09:16 PM

Christopher,

The Inuit probably derive most of their cardiac benefit from Omega-3's, which are originally obtained from non-animal sources.

Also, all that animal protein has a price:

"A Michigan State study found that by age 65, the average woman who ate meat had lost one-third of her skeletal structure. Meanwhile, vegetarian women of comparable age had less than half the bone loss and were more active, less likely to break bones, maintained erect postures, and healed bones more quickly.

The Inuit (Eskimo) have the highest osteoporosis rates in the world. In a study of 217 children, 89 adults, and 107 elderly Inuit in Alaska, researchers found that they had lower bone mineral content, onset of bone loss at an earlier age, and development of bone thinning with a greater intensity than white Americans. The scientists attributed the greater degeneration to the acidic effects of the Inuit's high meat diet."

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 3, 2007 06:18 PM

Christopher,

The Inuit probably derive most of their cardiac benefit from Omega-3's, which are originally obtained from non-animal sources.

Also, all that animal protein has a price:

"A Michigan State study found that by age 65, the average woman who ate meat had lost one-third of her skeletal structure. Meanwhile, vegetarian women of comparable age had less than half the bone loss and were more active, less likely to break bones, maintained erect postures, and healed bones more quickly.

The Inuit (Eskimo) have the highest osteoporosis rates in the world. In a study of 217 children, 89 adults, and 107 elderly Inuit in Alaska, researchers found that they had lower bone mineral content, onset of bone loss at an earlier age, and development of bone thinning with a greater intensity than white Americans. The scientists attributed the greater degeneration to the acidic effects of the Inuit's high meat diet."

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 5, 2007 08:28 PM

Holly, if there where no hunters and no wildlife poulation control you would still be seeing less and less deer. if there were no hunting seasons then there would be over population and consequently they would die from starvation,a worse way to die, slower and much longer.
I think that some hunters just need to practice their shots. Everytime I go I hit at the vitals which makes the deer drop in 2 seconds and no suffering is felt. We eat that meat for a whole year.
Fox penning is disgusting and gives hunters the WRONG reputation. That is NOT hunting people, thats cruelty. Ive heard in s. florida where I used to live some people have pinning dogs for hogs and that is the most horrendous thing ive ever heard about. Im glad I never had to see such a barbaric thing.

Posted by: Valerie | December 7, 2007 01:21 PM

Valerie you sound like a good person. If you have to hunt its good that you are a good shot and dont let the deer suffer. Penning hogs for hunting sounds just awful, like fox or any other animal penning for hunt. I hope this pen hunting will stop.

Posted by: Holly | December 11, 2007 09:46 PM