Great Post, Joel!! You sure are speedy in get our posts up and on! Just thought I'ld tell you that!

Posted by: Carla | November 29, 2007 03:41 PM

crash a TRUCK

This has nothing to with higher s. Same thing with any other oil :/,

Again, due to bad management.

Posted by: Michael J Caboose (and I babies) | November 29, 2007 03:41 PM

I just viewed the video about Chinese fur farms. I cried. I don't believe I'll ever be able to erase it from my memory. I'm also glad I don't wear fur, nor did I ever. Only a person sub-human would be able to treat an animal that way... I am sick to my stomach.

Posted by: donnac. | November 29, 2007 04:30 PM

Thanks Carla!

Posted by: Joel | November 29, 2007 04:31 PM

Eating pure chicken fat is very bad for you, but not much worse than eating all the processed vegetable goop on the market today. If you had to eliminate one food stuff to make Americans healthier it would have to be corn, not chickens or healthy meats. Corn fed Americans are much sicker than meat fed Americans, unless, of course, the meat is corn fed then your right back to where you started. The carbon molecules from a typical meal at Mcdonalds is over 80 percent corn based. That includes the fatty beef (corn fed), and all the corn oil used to fry everything.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 29, 2007 04:45 PM

I rather eat corn over meat for atleast 100 reasons.

Posted by: Jaclyn | November 29, 2007 04:59 PM

Yeah, meat kills (just ask Mama Cass). Anyway, seeing as how Jack is away and I don't know your email address. I found this, it involves exploiting animals, selling them over the Internet, adding to over-population AND animal testing.
http://www.life.com/Life/article/0,26385,1588202,00.html

Posted by: AnimalLib | November 29, 2007 06:52 PM

Christopher Cochran's specialty is HEART DISEASE, folks

Now, other medical authorities agree that meat and animal products are clogging our arteries.

Not in the Ozarks, where our Dr. Cochran spends most of his days posting here instead of attending to his patients

and living the the magical world of make believe

Think about it! This guy is collecting tax and insurance dollars to sit around here and post meat fantasies.

Posted by: kelly | November 29, 2007 07:53 PM

FORUM: please be advised that Christopher Cochran "MD" is NOT a cardiologist, not a nutritionist, and has NEVER offered any credentials to verify that he is even a "MD." He is, however, a mis-leading person because he is an ANTI-animal rights' activist -and takes it upon himself to comment on here as an authority figure.
Therefore, he promotes eating meat despite REAL cardiologists who support the fact that health declines due to eating meat and animal-related food products.

Posted by: Ariel | November 29, 2007 08:11 PM

The present farming system of oligoculture may be unsustainable. As we continue to produce more and more vast tracts of corn and soy, we may find this to be unsustainable and devastating to the natural environment. I am not saying that cow farts aren't the reason for global warming, but our current farm situation really must change or the planet will change it for us. I don't have an answer, I just felt like putting forward a deeper thought than Jaclyn's ramble...oh, jackie, did you have something to say?

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 29, 2007 08:15 PM

I am completely against animal cruelty, but could you please at least use logical, well-reasoned arguments and not these ham-handed non sequiters.

Posted by: Katherine | November 29, 2007 09:41 PM

Ariel,
I am not a cardiologist or nutritionist I am an internist which means I know more about cardiology or nutrition than most people. I know with your vast medical experience as a med tech or phlebotomist or cna or whatever job you have 'retired' from, you could probably give me a run for my money, but I'll take my chances. In fact, I can show you a cardiologist who wrote a book on why you should eat certain meats.

kelly,
This week I saw one hundred patients in the office and did twenty endoscopies, and trust me I gave my fair share of tax money back. Does your doctor get paid by your insurance company for not seeing you? Boy, I do live in the 'third world' as I must see patients for the insurance company to pay me.
I will give you another meat fantasy. People are fat and unhealthy not because they eat too much meat, but because they eat too many calories, many (most?)of which are processed corn and wheat. Too much meat is bad for you, but probably no worse than too much corn. I am consistently puzzled why you think I get paid for doing nothing...you must have an hourly waged job.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 29, 2007 11:17 PM

Ariel

Is Mr. Caboose an anti too?

The same would have happened with vegetable oil .

Posted by: Caboose (Combine Slayer) | November 30, 2007 06:15 AM

cochran: stop your insane statements here - my father is a corn fed veg and shall soon have his 90th anniversary! go to shoot your big game and then change your underwear!

Posted by: balsamo | November 30, 2007 07:32 AM

Ariel and kelly

Glad to see your comments!!! My internist is one of the best and he not only applauds my vegan diet but supports it. In fact I have never come across any doctor, from whatever specialty, that has said anything negative about being vegan. Every doctor I have met has said adamantly that eating less meat or no meat is certainly much healthier. The medical doctors I dated thought veganism was great and one became vegan through my influence. My step-dad has both diabetes and heart trouble. Guess what, he was told to modify his diet which included elimination of meat. When he craves his old bad habits of wanting flesh he eats very little. When I visit both my mom and he they really enjoy eating vegan all weekend; they feel better. You two ladies are doing a great job defending animals; keep fighting the good fight.

Posted by: Ana | November 30, 2007 09:04 AM

Something cocky

The Peta Files can't get rid of him
because he's an awkward clown!
He makes me laugh and sometimes grim -
one day he drives me up - the other down!

Cock...cock...cochran is his name!
and he goes to change his underwear
because he's hunting just big game
and one day he shall be eaten by a bear!

This funny wanker makes me sick!
because he's never tired!
Even worse than Michael Vick
but the days will come to see him fired!!!

Posted by: The Minstrel | November 30, 2007 09:53 AM

Christopher Cochran, exactly where do you think the majority of soy and corn--that you're so concerned are being overfarmed--goes???

Into ANIMALS raised for the flesh-eaters!

Therefore, eating less meat is better for not only health, but also for the environment!

And don't even get me started on the effects of factory farming on the watershed and water supplies!

Posted by: Soli | November 30, 2007 11:12 AM

Christopher,

Crop rotation, or perhaps letting a field lie fallow for a season, has always worked in the past. The majority of that corn and soy goes to feed meat animals (or ethanol), anyway.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | November 30, 2007 12:13 PM

A friend of mine has kidney disease (which she can never "cure"), and when she would get checked every year by her doctor, her levels would have deteriorated each time.

She had already been eating a vegetarian diet, but then she cut out almost all dairy and eggs from her diet (not because of anything her doctor said, but because of what she has learned from PETA). The following year, before she could mention her dietary changes, her doctor wanted to know what she had been doing differently, because her levels had stabilized. When she told her doctor about what she had done, the doctor said "whatever you are doing, keep doing it". My friend had improved her health by cutting out almost all animal protein.

To those of you who may not be convinced about the merits of a vegetarian/vegan diet for health reasons, consider this: if you eat meat, you are the living grave of all of the animal corpses you consume.

Posted by: Michele | November 30, 2007 01:28 PM

Soli and Mike, I couldn't agree with you more. People eat too much meat as well as everything else.

Michele,
A study of one proves little. Some kidney disease are worsened by protein, but plant protein would be just as bad.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | November 30, 2007 02:31 PM

"- my father is a corn fed veg and shall soon have his 90th anniversary!"

LOL,so what? My 100 year old grandfather is a meat eating farmer.

Cemetaries are filled with "healthy" people.Long life does not mean a good life nor can you or anybody prove anything, let alone diet, will make you live longer since no one knows when,how or where their death will occur.

Posted by: Mars | November 30, 2007 05:44 PM

mars: first of all i don't believe you a word that your grandfather is 100 years old, second i know several very old vegs but me i don't care about healthy eating but an ethical lifestyle and this is an art which you cannot learn: either you got it on your first birthday and it has to be considered as a gift or you don't have it at all - like you i presume and here i cannot help you further.........

Posted by: balsamo | November 30, 2007 06:47 PM

Christopher,

Though a low protein diet is recommended, the studies below indicate that plant protein is much healthier for people with kidney disease than animal protein.

Schiffrin EL, Lipman ML, Mann JF. Chronic kidney disease: effects on the cardiovascular system. Circulation. 2007 Jul 3;116(1):85-97.

D'Amico G, Gentile MG. Influence of diet on lipid abnormalities in human renal disease.
Am J Kidney Dis. 1993 Jul;22(1):151-7.

Bernstein AM, Treyzon L, Li Z. Are high-protein, vegetable-based diets safe for kidney function? A review of the literature. J Am Diet Assoc. 2007 Apr;107(4):644-50.)

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | November 30, 2007 06:52 PM

Who needs art?

Posted by: Caboose | November 30, 2007 10:28 PM

I suffer from gout. A painful, debilitating form of arthritis that is very much triggered by an excess of protein (and the body's inability to break proteins down efficiently).
Vegetarian eating undoubtedly always makes my flare ups go away...but then I find myself so addicted to meat and missing it so much I go back to it. It saddens me, and I don't know what to do to get over the addiction. I remember a time when I was a kid where I hardly ate meat...and thought it was gross, I wish I could get back to that.
Any suggestions? Besides meat-substitutes?

Posted by: Christopher H. | December 2, 2007 04:18 PM

"plant protein is much healthier for people with kidney disease "

Nuts.I guess I miss out then since I don't have kidney disease.

Posted by: Mars | December 2, 2007 06:52 PM

Christopher H.

If you can not limit your fatty meat intake you should make sure you do not do anything to become dehydrated. Avoid diuretics such as caffeine and most especially alcohol. Drink copious amounts of non-caloric liquid. Unfortunately some of the healthiest meats may induce gouty attacks due to a compound called purine which increases uric acid levels, but if you switch to plant protein such as soy or bean protein, your gout may continue if you do not have adequate hydration. Hydration is the key in many gout patients. Also, eggs are a good source of protein in gout patients. If you are having more than an episode every year or so, you need to talk to your physician about chronic medical treatment as chronic gout may lead to permanent joint or kidney damage.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 3, 2007 10:25 AM

Christopher H.
concerning your arthritis i can tell you that my father is suffering from the same problem and he is very old now but i can tell you what is helping him: first of all you should really try to give up meat, specially pork - second you should drink much warm water - not cold - this is balm for the kidneys and the liver and makes you urinate and so the blood becomes purified! don't drink alcohol but put some alcohol on the hurting parts of your body and you should keep very warm! if you avoid meat, sugar and salt this is always helping! my doctor said that arthritis, specially after a certain age cannot be healed but my father does exactly the things i explained uphere and then he feels at least much better! and my private experience: when i have a pain in my shoulders my cat is sleeping the whole night in my neck and her vibrating sound makes me feel much lesser pain in the morning - but this last thing here is my personal thing and not everybody's choice!

Posted by: animalfriend | December 3, 2007 12:18 PM

I am not sure why my comment of 10:25 is listed 'anonymous.' oh well.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | December 3, 2007 01:50 PM

Are you serious? eating meat is healthy and provides protein and nourisment for the body. You guys make me sick. Animals are animals. humans are dominat, therefore they are subservient.

Posted by: petaisdead | December 3, 2007 03:59 PM

Christopher H, try not to be too hard on yourself - at least you are trying, unlike some people on these blogs.

If you want to try to get away from eating meat altogether, try watching some of PETA's videos - I was already a vegetarian before I saw the videos, but became completely VEGAN after seeing the horrific treatment these animals receive on factory farms and in slaughterhouses. I cannot even stand to look at meat when it is on the grocery shelf now, and I was not like that before I saw the videos. If you really want to take the plunge, the movie "Earthlings" is pretty amazing, but very hard to watch, even for the most devoted animal rights activists.

And to take the more positive side of things, you just have to find yourself some delicious alternatives - two great places to start are www.vegcooking.com and www.goveg.com. Best of luck, and maybe you can tell us how things turned out for you.

Posted by: Michele | December 3, 2007 04:09 PM

Christopher H.,

I would just forget the meat substitutes, since they may prolong your desire for meat (which will disappear in time). Try to come up with more and more veg recipes you like. I experiment with concoctions all the time (like pasta, tomato sauce, chopped-up tofu and red kidney beans—sounds and looks a bit gross, but tastes good).

Besides your health, maybe slant your motivation more toward the environment and animal welfare. This might make it a bit easier to stay on track.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 3, 2007 04:09 PM

to petaisdead:
here we got another lunatic medieval quarry habitant! there is just one who is dead: you meatsucking stonehead - roll back into your cave - rollmops!

Posted by: Sancho | December 3, 2007 07:56 PM

Well said, Michele.

Posted by: Meli | December 3, 2007 11:17 PM

to petaisdead: you are an uneducated fool! if you would not be braindead you would educate yourself how to enjoy a healthy vegetarian diet and hence avoid unnecessary killing of other living beings and in the same time how to remain in good health! too bad for you...

Posted by: foxy | December 4, 2007 08:34 AM

I am a meat eater. As read down this list of posts I see a lot of people deliberatly speaking down to the "flesh eaters" as you call us. I didn't know we were such bad people, humans have been eating meat for thousands of years. Even Jesus ate fish. Its seems many vegitarians draw conclusions that because people eat meat we are some how "redneck hunters" who drink "coors" and have little intelligence. Why the hatred? It seems to me that we humans posses superior intelligence because our ancestors switched from a strictly vegitarian diet to more of a carnivourous diet. I read that animal protien is what causes the brain to grow. Any takers on this one?

Posted by: Kurt K | December 4, 2007 01:40 PM

Kurt K: we people here made the decision to live a veg life in order to avoid the senseless killing of innocient animals and for us this is normal and we are talking among each others! but i think that there are also meat-eating animal protectors or who are at least eating fish or chicken! but our talking among each others should not be felt as a despise for honestly interested people who want to help animals but are still eating meat! we all started there before and maybe you would be inspired to know more about a vegetarian lifestyle if you want to help animals! but i don't despise you because you eat meat - i'm just against heartless mocking suckers on these blogs who just want to disturb the whole thing - but if you are honest and interested in animal rights you are always welcome!

Posted by: cappuccino | December 4, 2007 03:50 PM

Cappuccino,

I have used harsh words with you in the past. When I began posting here, I originally wanted to contend that a person could be strongly pro-animal and still eat meat and even hunt. I have been raked over the coals which I don't mind at all, but I have resorted grumpy comments and sarcasm. If what you say is true, I am happy to be welcomed and I will try to do a better job presenting my point of view in a civilized and polite manner.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | December 4, 2007 10:26 PM

Cappuccino
Trust me when I say I think the poaching of animals is very upsetting to me. I am all for prtecting animals that have no value to humans other than trophies. However, I believe there are some animals put on this earth for the reason of consumption. Having said that, I beleive the abuse of domesticated animals is appualing and uncalled for. As far as getting me to convert to a vegitarian, I don't think there will ever be a chance of that. I enjoy to many meals to ever convert. But thanks for the offers.

Posted by: Kurt K | December 5, 2007 11:01 AM

Kurt K, Growing up with a father that was a avid hunter and made sauages out of their flesh, was a hard thing to avoid "not" eating! Putting mustard or ketchup on the "meat" helped a little. But now a days my father would rather take pictures and keep the deer alive to room "free" then oppose to killing "them" for "their" meat! Just goes to show you, tigers can "change" their stripes! Happy eating!!

Posted by: Carla | December 5, 2007 11:02 AM

to Kurt K and Christopher Cochran:

i'm always happy to see someone making a real effort and i think that - as you are visiting this blog frequently - we should find a special possibility also for 'not very advanced' ''animal-protectors'' to ad their capabilities! so if you are eating meat it would be great to stand up for humane slaughter methods! i'm not in america and i don't know the situation over there but for example in switzerland we have special organizations with so-called eco-friendly farms and controlled slaughter - in order to avoid the most horrible pains for the animals! also in bayern - germany they got a so-called moving slaughterhouse which is driven directly out in the fields and the animals are killed there for to avoid the stress of transportation - the first foreign people who adopted that method were native americans for their buffaloes and so the moving slaughterhouse went to america! i know that we cannot convince the whole world to go vegetarian - for this i think that the non-vegetarians should do everything possible in helping us in the hereup explained problem! and we should stop to reproach each other that we prefer humans or animals because even if i'm an avid animal rights fighter i'm in the meantime fighting for the human rights like for example this horrible case in saudi arabia - where a raped woman was condemned to 200 lashes and prison - and darfur, tibet, palestine and and and... this world is not free because their is too much greed and mean profit thinking - so we need a strong heart for the two - for our two-legged brothers and our furry brothers, otherwise we are just turning around without any results and effects! so humane slaughtermethods - this is the thing where non-veg people can help us! so i'm looking forward to something creative and positive!

Posted by: cappuccino | December 5, 2007 02:00 PM

Kurt,

Then lions should be the most intelligent animals on earth.

When you eat a steak it doesn't magically slap intact onto your biceps. Like plant protein, it is broken down into its component amino acids, and then combined with other amino acids in thousands of ways. The amino acid lysine from beans has the same chemical structure as lysine from eggs.

It's true that the bio-availabilty is general slightly better in animal protein than plant protein (there is digestibility variation also in animal protein itself).

Thus, for example, the UK's Department of Health recommends that vegetarians and vegans multiply their daily protein gram requirements by a factor of 1.1.

Just remember where the world's biggest land animals (and most of the ones you eat) get their protein—plants.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 5, 2007 06:52 PM

Let me add a bit to my last post. Strict vegans should probably multiply their protein requirements x 1.25.

If you require 60 grams of protein a day, then ingest 75 grams of plant protein. If you eat sufficient calories and a varied diet, you don't have to put too fine a point on it. Beans, nuts, seeds and tofu are all protein-rich.

Human mother's milk is just 5% protein, and this is at a time of rapid growth.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 5, 2007 07:12 PM

Mike,

The growing brain argument has less to do with protein than it does essential FA's. Sure the concentrated protein source was important in the development of the huge human brain, but consider that the human brain has a very large lipid component. Your current diet doesn't recapitulate your current brain in such a degree. As our ancestors walked upright out of the trees they were able to scavenge, then later hunt and eat animal proteins and concentrated FA's in organ meats. The ancestors that utilized these nutrients the best survived and reproduced most. Using this argument doesn't justify the inhumane keeping and slaughter of any animal, but it does justify the omnivorous nature of the human animal. The starving people of this world are not starving of calories. We send them bags and bags of rice and they still starve. The need precious, concentrated protein and they don't have the luxury of blended plant products to fulfill their AA requirements. Also, they are short on B12 containing pond scum as well. All this is as our ancestors were. These arguments sway me to eat the diet my ancestors did prior to the agricultural revolution as the human body has evolved little since then. (the lactose intolerance thing being the exception.)

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | December 6, 2007 11:03 AM

Christopher,

Do you really think all the food sent to starving people actually gets to them. I would say calories are a big issue. If you eat a variety of foods (that may not be possible for them) and sufficient calories, you can't help but get your daily requirements of macro- and micro-nutrients.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 6, 2007 05:14 PM

True, some of the biggest mammals in the world are plant eaters. However they also eat about 90 percent of the day and have to eat massive quantities to get the same amount of nutrition that a carnivore gets from one large meal. And if you want to get technical, the largest animals in the world are whales and they eat other little creatures such as krill. The killer whale eats nothing but meat and these animals out live all creatures by many years.

Posted by: Kurt K | December 6, 2007 06:14 PM

Mike,
I don't know what makes it to them, but rice, rice, and corn will starve you to death. Beans and rice is much better, but without dietary supplements, same deal, just slower. When you see those kids with the big bellies and the tiny limbs they may be suffering from caloric starvation (marasmus), but are often suffering kwashiorkor, or protein starvation. The belly protrusion is ascites or fluid in the perotoneal cavity from low blood proteins namely albumin. We see this in people with liver failure who can't make albumin any more. They don't get to eat a variety of foods, that is sort of what defines them as starving. I suppose they could head down the the grocery store for some tofurkey or boca burgers, but they don't have them. If they had cats, or dogs, or rats, or monkeys, or bugs, they would eat them. I've never seen road kill in a developing country. Sending them goats and cows may not be the answer, I don't really know what is, but I know that to them, protein is more precious than gold, and goats and cows have mastered turning bushes and grass into protein. We have not.

Posted by: Christopher Cochran MD | December 6, 2007 06:57 PM

Kurt,

That's why I specified land animals. Humans are also able to consume high-protein plant foods such as beans, nuts and seeds allowing us to not have to forage all day long.

Christopher,

They just don't get enough to eat period. Unfortunately, some resources have been imprudently pillaged turning once arable areas into desert wasteland. Ethiopia was once a land of milk and honey until the clear-cutting began. Fortunately, they are now trying to restore their arboreal heritage.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | December 7, 2007 03:08 PM