Please do not let this go on. These horses have done their time for us let's do the same for them. They need to take these horses to animal recuses or sanctuaries. This is a terrible thing to have happen. They do not deserve this treatment. Ban all horse slaughter business peroid in all countries!

Posted by: Michelli Hassell | October 15, 2007 06:14 PM

Honestly... there's some animals we shouldn't eat. Horses are just not meant to be eat. Sure, you've heard of some people who eat camels, but most Middle Easterners don't eat them because they are too useful as a way of transport. Same with horses here. Likewise, dogs and cats are companion animals, so they shouldn't be eaten either.

Posted by: Ray-O | October 15, 2007 06:31 PM

This is a horrible injustice for horses who are gentle animals and give us so much. Race horses may supply income to their owners and carriage horses provide entertainment for tourists, but none of them deserve an end in the slaughterhouse. They should be placed in sanctuaries where they can live out their retirements in fields among other horses and loved by humans. Please protect them from this horrible fate.

Posted by: Nancy | October 15, 2007 10:19 PM

What I was wandering is what people plan on doing with these horses, or with horses in general when the racing teams can't use them, or when people who own just one or two private horse, when they can't afford to take care of their horse and no one will take them or buy them. I am interested in the idea of slaughterhouses because then these horses are put out of their misery than the starve and suffer.

Posted by: Annina | October 15, 2007 11:24 PM

ever since i read this story i sit there and think about it cant get it out of my mind people are very sick in this world people who eat it and who kill it these people are scumbags who cant get a better job

Posted by: Tracy | October 16, 2007 08:44 AM

I have a question what are you supposed to do with all the horses that are of no use? I mean you don't want them to do with the animals? I feel it should be in the interest of the farmer or people who race the horse. I have seen the feedlots in the west that packed with horses. I think that is also at the tax payers expense.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2007 09:20 AM

i'm horrified by this report - how dare people do this! i can't understand why it's still permitted to export horses for slaughter to mexico or any other country! stop this insane crime at once - it's unbearable!

nevertheless i'm proud of PETA's heroic stand to push for this bill forbidding exportation! for this i love peta and i try to support where i can!

Posted by: little big woman | October 16, 2007 09:45 AM

This is just horrible! The horses suffer their whole lives and then are killed for what, "MEAT"! Who the heck eats horse, Asia. I read the news letter in the Metro about the torture that goes on in Mexico. They jab the horses in the neck to only paralyze them and then they hang them up and kill them. How come? This can't go on! We have to do whatever we could to get the AHSP Act to listen and get passed so that these horses are protected from this terrible fate.

Posted by: Carla | October 16, 2007 11:39 AM

All of those hooves; my heart is breaking. What a sick world we live in.

Posted by: Lori | October 16, 2007 12:33 PM

Ok Jack, what would you do with the horses?

"The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act - Prohibits a person from: (1) slaughtering a horse for human consumption; (2) importing to, or exporting from, the United States horseflesh or horses for human consumption; (3) selling, bartering, transferring, receiving, or distributing horseflesh or horses for human consumption; or (4) soliciting or knowingly causing any such actions."

I guess they will continue to be used as dog food then since only human consumption is targeted.

Posted by: Mars | October 16, 2007 02:02 PM

TESTIMONY OF

Bonnie V. Beaver, DVM, MS, Diplomate ACVB
Past President
American Veterinary Medical Association

Concerning the
American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act
H.R. 503

Before the
Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection
Committee on Energy and Commerce

July 25, 2006

Summary of Testimony

The AVMA opposes HR 503, The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act.

HR 503 fails to adequately address the unintended consequences of imposing a ban on the processing of horses.

The Penetrating Captive Bolt Gun causes instantaneous death and is an acceptable form of euthanasia for horses.

Transportation of Horses to Slaughter is highly regulated by the USDA. The transportation guidelines were developed with input from the AVMA, AAEP, other horse groups, the Humane Society of the United States, and other animal protection groups.

Welfare is the biggest concern of the AVMA for those horses that would be impacted by a ban on horse slaughter.

There are not enough rescue and retirement facilities, and these facilities are not regulated so there is no way to ensure that the horses would get adequate care.

The legislation does not address the financial support required to care for the horses given up by their owners.

The legislation does not address the disposal of over 90,000 horse carcasses if horse slaughter is banned.

Distinguished Members of Congress, my name is Bonnie Beaver and I am a past president of the American Veterinary Medical Association. I am here to explain why the AVMA opposes HR 503 – The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act.

I have provided you with my professional credentials, but I also want to briefly mention my involvement with horses. As a child, Roy Rogers was my hero and I named my first horse Trigger. Horses were my passion, and had much to do with why I became a veterinarian. They remain my passion, and that is why I am appearing before you today.

I strongly support the AVMA's opposition to HR 503 because the bill does not adequately address certain issues that are critically important to ensuring the welfare of horses that would be affected by it. We are also concerned that incorrect information has been circulated regarding what euthanasia techniques are appropriate for horses.

First, let me correct a few misconceptions regarding the handling and euthanasia of horses. The AVMA convened a panel of experts, veterinarians and scientists, which I chaired, to evaluate what was known about chemical and physical euthanasia methods. In that panel's report, a copy of which has been provided for the record, euthanasia is defined as a "humane death" in which unconsciousness is rapid and followed by the cessation of vital functions. The report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia recommends two types of euthanasia for horses—an overdose of barbiturate anesthetic and the use of a penetrating captive-bolt gun with appropriate head restraint. The penetrating captive bolt is NOT a stun gun. It causes instantaneous death due to the destruction of brain tissue. Let me repeat – instantaneous death. Statements contained in the panel's report about the importance of appropriate head restraint do not mean that the horse's head must be completely immobilized, but instead that it should be in a position to allow skin contact with the penetrating captive-bolt gun. Involuntary movements after brain death are common in horses undergoing euthanasia, and are often misinterpreted as struggling by those without a clear understanding of the process. Although such movements may be discomforting for the people who are watching, such movements are not and should not be interpreted as an indication that a horse is experiencing distress.

It has also been incorrectly stated that horses entering restraint boxes prior to application of the penetrating captive bolt invariably panic. In fact, states of excitement or panic in horses can result in injury to both the horse and people nearby, so this is something those involved with the horse slaughter process work very hard to prevent. Instead, and as required by USDA regulations, experienced individuals handle the horse appropriately and quietly; this allows the horse to enter the restraint box without injury. Once confined, horses become passive because they recognize that their instinctive ability to flee has been thwarted.

Second, we understand that supporters of HR 503 contend that methods used to transport horses to slaughter plants are inhumane. I will take this opportunity to remind you that current USDA regulations on the transport of horses to slaughter, which we have included for the written record, were developed and implemented with significant input from the AVMA, the American Association of Equine Practitioners, other horse-related groups and humane organizations. Among the humane organizations involved were the Humane Society of the United States and several other of the advocacy groups that are currently arguing against these regulations. We have yet to receive a satisfactory response from these groups about why they now object to the very regulations they helped draft.

Third, and foremost, the welfare of the horses that would be impacted by a ban on slaughter is the biggest concern of the AVMA. Currently, horse rescue and retirement facilities in the United States have a maximum capacity of about 6000 horses. It would be a daunting, and probably impossible, task to create facilities that could house an additional 10 times that number of horses every year. Creating these facilities and properly caring for each horse in them costs money. As shown in the Horse Welfare Coalition Fiscal Impact document, which has been included for the record, and as we have already experienced in the process of trying to manage wild Mustangs in the western United States, cumulative costs incurred for the care of a large number of horses are high. The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act does not provide the financial support required to ensure that horses given up by their owners will be adequately cared for, and inadequate funding has a huge potential to create opportunities for inadequate care. Watching a horse slowly die from starvation or disease is not only distressing, it's cruel. Furthermore, horse retirement facilities and sanctuaries are not regulated so there is no way to ensure the horses living there will receive adequate care.

Finally, disposing of the carcasses of euthanatized horses can be expensive and creates wildlife and environmental concerns. Euthanasia, carcass removal, and burial are each expensive, and cremation can cost as much as $1500. Scavenger species can be killed by chemical agents in discarded tissues. Burial is not permitted in many areas, and chemicals can contaminate the soil. Other disposal methods, such as biodigestors, show promise but are not yet readily available.

The AVMA is concerned that HR 503, although a well-intended effort, will have serious negative consequences for the welfare of unwanted horses. The people supporting this bill fail to take into account the ramifications of its passage. They are making this into an emotionally charged issue instead of offering solutions to the problem of unwanted horses, and are potentially creating more welfare and environmental concerns in the process. We ask that you please do what is right for the horses' welfare and not support HR 503.

Thank you.

Posted by: Mars | October 16, 2007 02:06 PM

Bill Status
Sponsor: Sen. Mary Landrieu [D-LA]show cosponsors (30)
Cosponsors [as of 2007-08-26]
Sen. Daniel Akaka [D-HI]
Sen. Joseph Biden [D-DE]
Sen. Barbara Boxer [D-CA]
Sen. Sherrod Brown [D-OH]
Sen. Robert Byrd [D-WV]
Sen. Maria Cantwell [D-WA]
Sen. Benjamin Cardin [D-MD]
Sen. Thomas Carper [D-DE]
Sen. Susan Collins [R-ME]
Sen. Christopher Dodd [D-CT]
Sen. John Ensign [R-NV]
Sen. Dianne Feinstein [D-CA]
Sen. Lindsey Graham [R-SC]
Sen. Daniel Inouye [D-HI]
Sen. Edward Kennedy [D-MA]
Sen. John Kerry [D-MA]
Sen. Frank Lautenberg [D-NJ]
Sen. Carl Levin [D-MI]
Sen. Joseph Lieberman [I-CT]
Sen. Trent Lott [R-MS]
Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]
Sen. Robert Menéndez [D-NJ]
Sen. Barbara Mikulski [D-MD]
Sen. John Reed [D-RI]
Sen. John Rockefeller [D-WV]
Sen. Olympia Snowe [R-ME]
Sen. Arlen Specter [R-PA]
Sen. Debbie Ann Stabenow [D-MI]
Sen. Ted Stevens [R-AK]
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse [D-RI]
Cosponsorship information sometimes is out of date. Why?
Cost: < $1 per American in fiscal year 2008?
The cost is estimated from a Congressional Budget Office report, by dividing the estimated cost of implementing the legislation by the U.S. population. It is of course just a gross estimate.
Bill Text: Summaries (CRS)
Full Text
Status: Introduced Jan 17, 2007
Scheduled for Debate -
Voted on in Senate -
Voted on in House -
Signed by President -

This bill is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced bills go first to committees that deliberate, investigate, and revise them before they go to general debate. The majority of bills never make it out of committee.

Posted by: Mars | October 16, 2007 02:14 PM

I wrote a letter regarding the American Horse Slaughter Prevention act and this was the response (aka load of crap) that I received. Thought you might be interested.

Dear Debbie :

Thank you for contacting me regarding the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act. It is good to hear from you.

The American Horse Slaughter Prevention act would prohibit a person from: (1) slaughtering a horse for human consumption; (2) importing to, or exporting from, the United States horseflesh or horses for human consumption; (3) selling, bartering, transferring, receiving, or distributing horseflesh or horses for human consumption; or (4) soliciting or knowingly causing any such actions.

I do not wish to see any animal needlessly harmed and I support the humane treatment and handling of animals and livestock for both ethical and economic reasons. However I oppose the bill because it goes far beyond humane treatment of animals and mandates unprecedented government authority over the animal agricultural sector without any scientific, food safety or public health justification. There is no evidence that suggests products derived from equine pose any food safety or public health risk. Establishments that process equine intended for interstate shipment are inspected by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and are thereby required by law to adhere to the Humane Slaughter Act, Federal Meat Inspection Act, and other federal animal health and food safety regulations.

The bill includes several very unusual and controversial punitive modifications to the criminal justice process that would be applied to persons at any level. The bill truncates search and seizure requirements by excluding warrants or other due process. For sentencing, the bill includes mandatory minimum fines for violators. In addition to mandatory punishment requirements, the bill also mandates seizure and can include debarment from the equine industry.

Moreover, this legislation places limits on the selection of euthanasia methods for equine, and these limits do not conform to the expert advice of the members of the American Veterinary Medical Association's Panel on Euthanasia. Limiting methods of euthanasia restricts the application of professional judgment, which is vital to ensuring a humane dispatch for these equine. Finally, the diets of certain American cultural populations view equine as a valuable, wholesome source of protein. Livestock producers have responded to these cultural demands by growing livestock desirable for this food segment. It has also become a valuable export product. Last year, the U.S. exported nearly $20 million in equine protein to Europe which supports hundreds of livelihoods across the country.

In all, I believe the bill goes far beyond humane treatment of animals and mandates unprecedented government authority over the animal agricultural sector without any scientific, food safety or public health justification.

Sincerely,
John A. Boehner

Posted by: Debbie | October 16, 2007 03:18 PM

I am just completely outraged by this! I adopted two race horses, and I swear they have personalities just like my dogs do! I love them so much and I can't imagine sending them to a slaughter house, never the less eating horse meat! Please people,we have to protect these animals..this is a disgrace. The whole horse racing and horse carriage industry is just crap, I can't stand it.

Posted by: kate | October 16, 2007 04:14 PM

So many people are involved with bringing an end to the slaughter of our "AMERICAN ICON'S", and we will not stop until we reach the end of this horrific practice.
What will we do with these wonderful horses???
Does the term,
"RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP" mean anything to you who ask's this question?
I do not think so, for you have no respect for these horses who mean very little if nothing to you.
You are the people who are irresponsible, you most likely get rid of any animal that no longer means anything to you.
You are the "BOTTOM FEEDERS" on this earth, you are no better than the "KILL BUYER'S" that treat these poor babies like trash.
Judith

savedahorses.com

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter | October 16, 2007 06:04 PM

I saw the most grusome picture of a horst slaughter house in mexico. its on the MSNBC picture blog. I was happy they put it on so it could be exposed but all the editor said about it was that it showed a lot of depth and the colors of the blood and gore were amazing.... honestly... Im sorry but the words horse and slaughter house just should not go together. the word slaughter house should not go with any being but that is just insane. what has humanity, or lack of it, come to?

Posted by: olga | October 16, 2007 06:11 PM

I saw the most grusome picture of a horst slaughter house in mexico. its on the MSNBC picture blog. I was happy they put it on so it could be exposed but all the editor said about it was that it showed a lot of depth and the colors of the blood and gore were amazing.... honestly... Im sorry but the words horse and slaughter house just should not go together. the word slaughter house should not go with any being but that is just insane. what has humanity, or lack of it, come to?

Posted by: olga | October 16, 2007 06:11 PM

To: NEWCOMERS who are sincerely interested in learning about ANIMAL RIGHTS'

Please be aware that there are a lot of anti-a/r's commenters on here. So please don't confuse their views with our views as REAL animal rights' activists.

Typical comments from anti's are that of "RAY-O"
and
"MARS" who so obviously has an agenda against the rights of animals, that it would not be far-fetched to think that he/she is being paid by an ANTI-animal rights' group(s) who -in FACT- pay their representatives to go to any length to try to undermine, purposely misinterpret, and give false information contrary to animal rights'
If "Mars" is not being paid, then he/she has such an abnormal obsession against animals rights' that it irrationally consumes his/her time by commenting daily and pointlessly on an ANIMAL RIGHTS' blog site - again, going to any length to try to undermine, purposely misinterpret, and give false information.

Speaking for the animals...Ariel, ANIMAL RIGHTS' ACTIVIST.

Posted by: Ariel | October 16, 2007 06:28 PM

to Anonymous

what do you mean when they have no use for the animals...well sorry to burst your bubble animals were not put on this earth as our workers or slaves.like what kind of drugs are you on.so when a person retries from there job cause of old age we should have human slaughterhouses and just slaughter them cause we have no use for them any longer???

your a retard seriously...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2007 06:39 PM

Hi, Debbie!
Thank you for submitting the response letter. I'll say it's a bunch of double-talk crap!
wow -a whole lousy $20 million in equine exports, (while the same U.S. govt. gives billions and billions to our enemies! - spare me!)
"...supports hundreds of livelihoods across the country." Oh, SO concerned about (only) hundreds of U.S. livelihoods, while the same U.S. govt. allowed thousands and thousands of livelihoods to be wiped out, sent jobs to China, and thousands of U.S. businesses had to close and still are closing down.
At first, Boehner supports humane treatment, then turns around and doesn't support it. And the euthanasia part especially, made as much sense as the anti comments do on here: none!

Posted by: Ariel | October 17, 2007 07:23 AM

Ariel
As usual, your comments are illuminating with a strong dose of compassion. The anti's are here only to parrot what the animal haters/killers write/speak. Quoting from the AVMA and the HSUS is a joke; they are no friends of animals. Their respective agendas are driven by money and membership considerations. The AVMA can't even accept that declawing cats is an amputation and is both very cruel and painful for felines to endure. It serves no purpose for the cats; plenty are found by me in the streets defenseless after being thrown out of their homes because their people tired of them. The HSUS promotes eating animals as long as they are "humanely" raised and brutally killed in slaughterhouses. The HSUS with their soft campaigns is laughable but they do brag about their membership. They and other groups that are sleeping with the enemy are only prolonging and contributing to even more misery that animals endure . Shameful!
Peace! from another animal advocate! :)

Posted by: Ana | October 17, 2007 10:21 AM

I saw a video on YouTube of horses being slaughtered. Someone was filming it undercover or something. It was one of the most saddest gut wrenching things I've ever witnessed before. I cried my eyes out watching this and I couldn't look away although I really wanted to. The image of a horse with it's legs cut off, hanging from the ceiling and it's head swaying back and forth will forever be engraved inside my brain. I became a vegetarian because of this video.

Posted by: Tracy | October 17, 2007 11:39 AM

Mar's,
What does it feel like getting paid blood money from the USDA?
You have no idea what kind of condition these animals are in before, during and after transport.
I do have much pity for you.
Such brainwashing and the love of blood money.
You sound just like a talking head for the USDA and
the AVMA.
You have DEEEEP pockets.
Your posts never upset me, they just show so much lack of humanity that it takes my breath away.
Such a sad, sad person you are.
Please accept my deepest sympathy for selling your soul,
Judith

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter | October 17, 2007 06:33 PM

Hi,Ana,
To be honest with you, I didn't even read the post regarding the avma/hsus because I checked first to see who submitted it. Well, seeing that is was from the space cadet, I didn't waste my time with his/her constant nonsense. LOL
But you are DEFINITELY right about the avma/hsus and all your other comments. Yes, they do sleep with the enemy, and quoting from them IS a joke.
The space cadet should check into the HSUS CEO's HUGE six-figure salary, and perhaps he/she would like to quote that, as well as the income of his wealthy, extended panel of experts, who soak up the donations for saying the "right" thing.

Posted by: Ariel | October 17, 2007 07:57 PM

Of all animals to slaughter ? Horses ??? They are passionate and gentle animals ! I have been a vegetarian for 2 years and have never regretted my decision. I think the way we treat animals is a disgrace ! Becoming a vegetarian is the best decision i have ever made and i am very strongly agianst people killing animals for their own personal greed and pleasure !!! We'll be slaughtering and eating dogs and cats next (where i know they do in some places). I cry my eyes out thinking about these poor animals and i always wonder why it is allowed to go on. Animals (especially horses)have a right to a life without pain, fear, neglect and slaughter !!! They are not ours to eat, wear or abuse !!

Thank You

Posted by: Loz | October 18, 2007 08:28 AM

Posted by Judith;

"AMERICAN ICON'S",

What? Horses are not even native to this continent let alone this Country.

Tracy posted;

" It was one of the most saddest gut wrenching things I've ever witnessed before."

So? You have lived a very charmed life then. Be glad for it but I'm sure you would be just as impressed watching video of a vegetable processing plant.I have family working in those factories and some of them have quit working in them because of the filth.They say that they shovel the plants that fall off the line onto the floor right back onto the line.If you get a can of vegetarian soup that has a little "meat" in it, send it back. The employee is curious as to where his fingers ended up after the accident because they didn't shut down the line and they got processed and canned.

Posted by: Mars | October 18, 2007 08:57 AM

Wow, it's just a "little" aggravating that "there isn't enough room for all of the horses that are given up each year" (which is pretty much what "some" people are stating)..well then why don't we ban horse racing, and horse carriage rides?! that would save a lot of those poor horses who because "there is no room for them" they have to be horrifically slaughtered !

Posted by: kate | October 18, 2007 09:55 AM

In my opinion, horses should retire peacefully. No need to eat him.

Posted by: Ray-O | October 18, 2007 12:52 PM

Ok people. Lets look out of the box here.
We banned horse slaughter in the U.S., Great! but now they must be sent to countries with relaxed regulations to be slaughtered.
This one has backfired on us. The answer to this problem is simple. We must cease the use of horses in this country (racing, carriages, etc.) that way we wont be left with the question of what to do with horses once they are "not of use anymore" think about it.
CEASE THE COMMERCIAL USE OF HORSES!

Posted by: brian moy | October 18, 2007 12:52 PM

Judith;

"You have no idea what kind of condition these animals are in before, during and after transport."

Your wrong again.I suspect your the one with no clue. Have you even seen a real horse? Doubtful.

kate;

"well then why don't we ban horse racing, and horse carriage rides?! "

Why should they? Just to make you happy? I suppose in you animal rights world the animals are better off not living at all or extinct? The good news is that they want to pass the bills for caring for all those horses on to ALL of us which includes you.So if it passes, which is not likely,you get to put your money where your mouth is.

loz;

"Animals (especially horses)have a right to a life without pain, fear, neglect and slaughter !!! "

LOL, nobody can make that "dream world fantasy" come true for the human race let alone animals.

Posted by: Mars | October 18, 2007 01:22 PM

Ariel

You're right about ignoring the "space cadets" on this blog. Animal haters/killers/abusers say/do anything to defend the indefensible. The HSUS and the ASPCA, just to name a couple, are not really working for the benefit of animals; they just want to sell their "soft" approach to those who want to feel good about still eating/wearing animals. I refuse to donate to orgs whose CEO's make 6-figure salaries and do very little for the other animals. The HSUS opposes TNR and does not donate their millions to help animals in shelters that need vast improvements and care. I support the grass roots orgs who do more with little $$$ and a few volunteers. It seems this blog is inundated with anti's; obviously too much on their hands! Peace! :)

Posted by: Ana | October 18, 2007 03:51 PM

Brian,
This did not sneek up on us.
We knew what was coming.
But our horses have been transported to Mexico for years.
The pro-slaughter people are playing the blame game which is just like them.
This is why it is so important to have a calling list to Senator's and Reps.
We need to get S.311 and HR.503 passed as soon as possible.
The pro-slaughter people are spewing nothing but lies, their good at that.
Good example is Mar's, a talking head that doesn't know shit.
So don't think for 1 minute
that this backfired.
It's just such a horrific, horrific process.

Mar's,
Up your med's and quit your psycho babbling...

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter | October 18, 2007 05:05 PM

Judith, Freedom Fighter,
Interesting. I didn't read anything from MARS denying that he/she gets paid by the USDA, did you?

Kate and Loz,
Please ignore that space cadet, Mars. He/she takes delight in being obnoxious.

Be proud of your gift of compassion - that no one can take away from you - and your beautiful gentleness.

Posted by: Ariel | October 18, 2007 06:00 PM

Mars,

I've been in the Heinz plant in Leamington, Ontario, and everything was clean and pristine. So there are vegetable processing plants that run a tight ship.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | October 18, 2007 06:54 PM

I think there are folks on here being paid by USDA. Regulations, laughable. They don't enforce their own regulations on slaughterhouses, labs, or transportation of livestock. Ban commercial USE of animals, period. Problem solved. They are not ours to USE in the first place.

Posted by: Michelle | October 18, 2007 07:16 PM

Ariel,
You are right.
Not one single denial, not a word.
Blood money=dead soul.

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter | October 18, 2007 09:02 PM

Mike, your post in response to Mars about the vegetable processing plant reminded me of a topic a few months ago about slaughterhouses. I don't know if you remember that one, but I seem to recall that when the animal rights people were suggesting to others that they watch the "Meet Your Meat" video and the "Earthlings" movie, Mars was quite vocal about having been in a couple of slaughterhouses in recent times, and based on his rather limited experience, he insisted that slaughterhouses don't engage in those inhumane practices anymore. I find it VERY convenient that he suddenly has supposedly extensive experience regarding vegetable processing plants, apparently "proving" that they are all filthy.

The evidence is mounting that he is someone who benefits financially from the meat and its related industries. Why else would he so vigorously defend slaughterhouses while at the same time trying to "prove" that processed vegetables are "bad"??? I think Ariel is on the right track...

Posted by: Michele | October 19, 2007 12:10 AM

"I've been in the Heinz plant in Leamington, Ontario, and everything was clean and pristine. So there are vegetable processing plants that run a tight ship."

Didn't say there weren't any.There are also clean slaughterhouses.You want to believe that all slaughterhouses are the same and all vegetable plants are the same. They are not. Both have their good and bad facilities.

Judith wrote;

"Ariel,
You are right.
Not one single denial, not a word."

Nope, because it does not matter and you can believe whatever notion you want.So far you have me working for PETA,USDA,HSUS and slaughterhouses.With so many jobs even I wonder where I get the time to be here.Why a six figure income? Make it seven!

Posted by: Mars | October 19, 2007 10:25 AM

Hi Michele,

Hope you had a great honeymoon!

Have you read "Slaughterhouse" by Gail Eisnitz (I think you may have mentioned you had)? As you might know, she interviewed slaughterhouse workers right across the USA. Animal and worker cruelty was the order of the day.

If you haven't yet, you've got to read "Toxic Sludge Is Good For You" or "Trust Us, We're Experts" both by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton. Fascinating reads.

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | October 19, 2007 10:26 AM

Well, let all of a/r's activists thank the space cadet for allowing us to believe whatever notion we want. And the "notion" that I firmly believe is that the space cadet is a space cadet - because he/she has firmly and repeatedly proven himself/herself to be one. (among other things)

Posted by: Ariel | October 19, 2007 12:49 PM

Mike Q, I bought steaks at a slaughterhouse this morning.People and animals all looked happy and healthy. Go figure.

Michele wrote;

" Mars was quite vocal about having been in a couple of slaughterhouses in recent times, and based on his rather limited experience,"

Limited to weekly visits for 30 years. How many have you been in and how often?Enlighten us from your vast experience.

Posted by: Mars | October 19, 2007 01:27 PM

Mars,

Then why did you bring the issue up in the first place? A slaughterhouse by its very nature (with blood, brain matter, saliva, feces, urine, hair, etc.) is bound to be a more unhygienic place. BTW, I don't consider dirt "dirty".

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | October 19, 2007 01:42 PM

Mike, thanks for the suggestions - I just requested those books from my local library. I had previously read "Sacred Cows and Golden Geese" at your suggestion and just thought it was an amazing book! I have tried to find "Specious Science" but it's not at the library, and I haven't found it at the bookstore (I think I will have to order it from Chapters online).

And yes, the honeymoon was great! We spent every day at the beach (Myrtle Beach area) and played in the ocean, because it was so hot! I also did some serious shopping, especially since our dollar is basically on par with the US dollar now - that was FUN! I stocked up on "method" household products because not all of their products are available in the stores here in Ontario. Have you tried "method" products before? I heard about them on PETA's website when the co-founders won PETA's "Persons of the Year" award last year.

Posted by: Michele | October 19, 2007 03:55 PM

Mars,

The animals looked happy and healthy at the slaughterhouse? Go figure. Is this one of those slaughterhouses where the animals slaughter the humans?

Posted by: Mike Quinoa | October 19, 2007 03:57 PM

I believe that Mar's is just a really dirty person.
Hang's out at slaughterhouses??????
That tells me a lot about someone.....

Posted by: Judith, Freedom Fighter | October 19, 2007 04:43 PM

Wouldn't it be incredible if the space cadet was able "enlighten" us on the internal health of those meat-eating people, rather than just how they appeared on the outside? Gosh, then we wouldn't need medical science to determine cardiac-related illnesses from eating meat!
And, uh, what am I not understanding here from the space cadet: slaughtered animals looked happy and healthy? Can someone explain that to me please.

Anyway, Michele, wouldn't lower herself to go to an unconscienable slaughter house. Just the word "slaughter" is something a murdering maniac does and enjoys.

Posted by: Ariel | October 19, 2007 07:01 PM

Question to: Michele or any a/r's activist.

The only thing that I can't find - no matter how much reasearch I did about products that are not tested on animals - is a deordorant bath soap or deodorant body wash. "Bath & Body Works" retail stores doesn't carry all non-tested animal products even though they are on PeTA's non-testing list. As we know, a label that reads: "We do not test on animals" only means that the company itself does not test on animals - but it doesn't mean they don't employ labs to do the testing on animals for them.
I checked into "Giam" products and the like, which do not test on animals, but they want a small fortune for them.
Any suggestions for deordorizing - or even non-deodorizing soaps or body washes - that aren't tested on animals AND don't cost a small fortune?

Posted by: Ariel | October 19, 2007 07:18 PM

And yet, the "space cadet" refers to spaying and neutering (in another post) as deliberate "mutilation"...

Posted by: Michele | October 21, 2007 11:50 AM

Ariel, I currently use "method"'s body wash - it costs about $5 or $6 in Canada, but it seems to last a very long time, so I think it's worth it. Before that, I used JASON body wash - they have really large bottles for about $12, but again, it seems to last for ages. Kiss My Face has bar soaps that are just a few bucks (the olive oil one is nice, and is vegan - I know that not all of their products are), and also last a very long time. I guess these products seem expensive at the time of purchase, but I think because they are not diluted like a lot of "mainstream" products, the cost per day is probably fairly reasonable. I am not sure what is available where you live (I think Pangea has the Kiss My Face products that you can order online - but then shipping can be a drag), but let me know what you find.

Posted by: Michele | October 22, 2007 05:11 PM

Hi, Michele, : )
I appreciate you getting back to me. Those prices aren't bad at all, and yes, I believe that they would last a long time. The products I was finding were more like $22 and up for very, very small amounts of ounces, plus added shipping costs.
Thanks SO much, I'll see where I can find the ones you mentioned, and let you know.

Posted by: Ariel | October 23, 2007 01:47 PM

Wow, $22! I had no idea! And I thought $12 was expensive. The hardest things for me to find are cosmetics, because there are no vegan products in Walmart, local pharmacies or in my grocery store's "Natural Value" section which has tons of other vegan/cruelty-free personal care products like JASON and Kiss My Face. There is one natural foods store that is sort of in my area (takes at least 20 minutes to get there by car, and it is not on the way to any of my usual destinations) - it has some of the Ecco Bella products like the mascara, but none of the other vegan make-up brands. I end up buying most of that stuff from Pangea's online site.

I'm sure you will be able to find lots of body wash products that are reasonable - when you find out, let me know on a more recent PETAfiles thread, in case I do not end up going back this far in the archives.

Posted by: Michele | October 23, 2007 10:04 PM

These people are truly sick out of their minds. Who in their right minds would send horses to be slaughtered for no reason at all. What would you do if your horse went there to be slaughtered like that. This has to stop. This needs to stop and the time is now. These so called people that send these horses to be slaughtered should be a shame and this is sick. People don't care about living things anymore. They want a fast buck so they get it by killing horses that are healthy and happy. They are horses that come from good homes this is just wrong and sick. Put an end to this slaughter now. Stop killing these horses. What would happen if your horse came to be slaughtered would you be happy no. Stop it now. Wrong and sick and not very nice. People should find homes for these wonderful animals. How would you like to be slaughtered just like these horses are. They have rights just like people do. Stop the hurting. These horses did nothing wrong so they should live out their lives like we do. There are places for horses to be and that is not in the slaughter house. This is not right and it is totally wrong. Do we go to the slaughter house when we are to old or in good health i don't think so. Why waste something good like a horse. Just sick and nasty and mean and terrible. I would never do these to any kind of animal.

Posted by: Barb | October 24, 2007 08:31 PM

"Then why did you bring the issue up in the first place? A slaughterhouse by its very nature (with blood, brain matter, saliva, feces, urine, hair, etc.) is bound to be a more unhygienic place."

Not really. Having an indoor dog or cat then would mean you have an unhygienic house.Animal shelters would then have to be shut down.

Ariel;

"And, uh, what am I not understanding here from the space cadet: slaughtered animals looked happy and healthy? Can someone explain that to me please."

Sure can. Slaughterhouses have live animals in them awaiting slaughter. Slaughter refers to killing of the animal. Butchering refers to cutting the animal into usable pieces. That's why there are slaughterhouses and butcher shops.Sometimes they are together but not always. Seems animals understand their lot in the natural cycle better then you do.

"Gosh, then we wouldn't need medical science to determine cardiac-related illnesses from eating meat!"

Vegans die from heart disease as well.They are not exempt from any disease or death.

Posted by: Mars | October 25, 2007 03:47 PM

There are reports now that people are releasing horses into the wild, and at this time of year, they aren't going to last long. I talk to people who own horses and asked what they are doing with their horses. Some say they haven't become too desperate to do anything yet, but some are considering shooting the horses themselves and burying them, its cheaper to them this way. They say they can't sell them because nobody wants them anymore. Horse Rescue Agencies wont take any more horses in our area because they're full, and trust me, those places aren't what they are cracked up to be, I've visited them. Another individual I talked to said he's considered eating the horses himself (I'm guessing he's a kill buyer) because he doesn't want to starve them, this man is disgusting! This leaves us in quit a limbo, what should we do? I don't want to see horses suffer!

Posted by: Jackie | December 14, 2007 11:02 AM

im in australia and we have a huge racing industry over here but only one slaughterhouse that will ake horses. although this is great news on one level it also means that alot of very smart, skittish and very strong horses are getting sold very very cheap to people who have no horse sense at all. the horses get put to sleep or abused alot of the time and alot of people get hurt because the horse was just to much for them. i think that we need to create more humane ways of slaughterhouses operating rather than taking them away.

Posted by: tez | March 26, 2008 02:59 AM

Today is a Sad day. A Beautitul Horse had to be put down after breaking BOTH ankles during The Stupid Kentucky Derby. Forcing animals to race purely for enjoyment, so two-bit tramps can prance around in big ugly hats is just down right TERRIBLE!! RIP Beautiful creature...

Posted by: Michelle | May 3, 2008 07:04 PM