I have always wondered why we portrait kings as lions and vice versa? After all - lLions used to eat us on a daily basis not too long ago?

When it comes to the Devil - we make him look like our livestock: goat-beard, hooves, horns.. the animals we eat and torture ourselves? (God looks more like a lion again?)

Those who are more powerful than us we respect and warship - those weaker and at our mercy we loath and seem to fear, unconsciously, more than those who eat us..? Why? Is the Devil really in all of us and somehow connected to our livestock?

It might also be like the comedian Sarah Silverman once explained: "I don't make fun of black people because I am afraid of them.. Chinese and midgets on the other hand..."

Posted by: hugo pottisch | August 6, 2007 01:55 PM

Woof!! Puuuurfect!

Posted by: Laura | August 6, 2007 03:18 PM

since my earliest childhood i included always the whole animal kingdom in my compassion and my heart is bleeding every day, knowing that milliards of these wonderful living beings are killed and abused in every second of my life! it is different when animals are killed by other animals in the wild but it is really heartbreaking to see domesticated animals killed by humans! this is perverted and against human dignity because it's not in the eternal godly design. the human being is not meant to kill other living beings but to love them: this is his whole purpose of life; the love! i love all animals and my compassion is illimited for every kind of life, including insects, crocodiles, rats, snakes and all the other animals that many people don't have much sympathy - i'm just afraid of wasps but i always try to find a way to save them, if i can't i leave the room and after 5 minutes they have left!

but killing cows, pigs, sheeps, goats, chicken, geese etc. is not understandable for me because i'm a vegetarian now for more than 35 years and i think it's not necessary to eat meat. a complete stop of animal killing would really be paradise and then also hunger and wars would stop! so i just can hope that one day....but i think that this shall not be during my lifetime!

Posted by: shadowfax | August 6, 2007 03:40 PM

Awww, pig-dogs are so cute!!! It's weird how some people say that dogs are more worthy of respect because pigs are "filthy", when in truth we're the ones forcing the pigs to live in filth. Pigs are unable to sweat, so they roll in either mudd or water to cool off. I'm sure that if pigs could tell us that they'd rather roll in water instead of mudd, they would do so. When it really comes down to it, there's barely any difference between a pig and a dog, a cat and a chicken, or a horse and a cow.

Posted by: Brianna Fritchey | August 6, 2007 04:05 PM

Hilarious! And, oh, so true!
Pigs are said to be, if anything, smarter than dogs
(and considering how smart MY dogs are, they must be geniuses). Chickens are also very intelligent and sensitive creatures; I think the comparison is apt and right on the mark.

Posted by: Susannah | August 6, 2007 05:02 PM

fruity flamming peta loving wackos all need to get a clue. All peta members can't say they a faithful. Once in you life and my more then once you have betrayed your animal frineds. So don't feel sorry for them blam yourself for starting this group and making yourself hateful againist them people who do think animals are a way of life and do play a major role in the way we live. So eat a hotdog or something im sure there are plenty of animals in that!!!!!

Posted by: Joe Kinn | August 6, 2007 05:35 PM

Im not sure I am making the connection of people who stop eating meat, and world wide peace.. last time I checked, wars were not fought over burgers and steaks.. and also.. i guess the no difference between a pig and dog and a chicken and a cat is the same as there is no difference between hitler and ghandi, or bin laden and MLK jr. Im not saying that chickens and pigs are evil, but there is a difference between the two.

Posted by: tmax | August 6, 2007 05:46 PM

I think that PETA is too much propaganda, the story on fish is crap because it should really be focused more on the fact that our oceans our not safe, but instead of pushing for a cleaner enviroment they want us to stop eating fish. Uh retards fish oil is used to focus people, like people with ADD. So that article is way off topic and the people @ PETA need to actually have an accruate story instead of just makeing stuff up.
P.S. I love to eat meat.

Posted by: Mitur Banisderty | August 6, 2007 06:03 PM

Honestly, it looks like the kind of random weird picture that gets passed around the internet among a few people and never taken seriously.

Posted by: Jessica | August 6, 2007 06:18 PM

Shadowfox~,
I know what you mean. I'm also vegetarian, only for about a year now. I feel its not nessecary to eat meat either. I mean, does this country need a big Mac or huge portions? I actually feel more healthier not eatting meat. Thank you for making an excellent point!

Posted by: Anna | August 6, 2007 07:36 PM

i totally think this 2 be a perfect portrayl of how narrow minded people actually can be.to lovingly speak of a pet,then turn around and devour a moo-burger.who could call themselves a lover of animals,then turn around and chew on a dead corpse?i truely love my doggy.thing is in all other animals,i see beauty.this beauty always reminds me of tristen,and how vunurable all animals are to us.humans....superior breed?..not so much.

Posted by: KATERS | August 6, 2007 07:44 PM

I just want to say I TOTALLY AGREE!!! And I love the message you give out. I am 13 years old and will be a vegetarian for 4 years in Jan. of 2008. My family is not vegetarian and it kills me to see them eat the animals I love (not cooked). They get angry whenever I try to speak my mind and that angers me because I know there are so many others just like them that are so ignorant and refuse to even hear about the TORTURE that we put animals through. What humans do to animals is like what Nazis did to Jews in the holocaust...except worse! It is HORRIBLE what people do to animals because they want to grill them and enjoy them. They say animals aren't meant for anything but to feed us...and I would be more OK with it if they weren't CRUEL to them!! I love PETA and the message it gives out to whoever will listen. It tells people what my heart totally believes and my head totally knows. And people think it's disgusting whenever anyone eats a dog in China, but Americans and other people like us do the same thing...just to other animals! Just because cows and pigs don't fetch sticks doesn't make them any less valuable at all. For those of you who are religious...does god look down on pigs and cows and other animals? Does he say, "You don't speak human language. You should be tortured and eaten!" Truthfully, I don't see god saying that in the bible or any other place. (sorry to ramble and go on) But this is what I truly believe in, and salute those who realize it! Thank you for bringing this to so many people's recognition. I know 2 or 3 people who just recently became vegetarians because of what they had on PETA. Thank you for caring!

Posted by: Selena | August 6, 2007 08:46 PM

LOL, those animals are ADORABLE! How could anyone eat a pig or a chicken?? Awww, I'm gonna print that out and frame it.....

Posted by: millie | August 7, 2007 02:02 AM

brianna, pigs roll in mud in preference to water because it sticks on and gives longer lasting protection from the sun.

Posted by: rojo | August 7, 2007 07:28 AM

Here we go again (still) with the anti-animal activists spouting out their narrow, uneducated views, versus the animal rights' activists who have a deep and vast knowledge about the whole human/animal/environmental/societal relationship, how it all inter-acts, and how it all relates.
JOE KINN, TMAX, and the like, since a 13 year old girl, Selena (above), already has MORE than a clue - above and beyond what you people will ever seem to have, you really, really should be ashamed of yourselves that you won't even try to understand animal rights.
Can you at least TRY to open your minds to TRY gather some understanding of the valuable information and education that is being offered here?

If not, then YOU are choosing to live in your own narrow-minded worlds...and that is a very, very unhappy life. In fact it is SO sad, because your minds misconstrue animal rights' activists as people who hate. What in the world are you basing that concept on when we continually talk about us having compassion?...compassion for the voiceless animals who are tortured and suffer at the hands of cruel mankind. Don't you have any clue or opinion about those people who are SO unconscienable and heartless towards animals? Remember this: if a human can be cruel to an animal, they are VERY capable of being cruel to humans.
It is really obvious that some of you anti-activists fall under the catergory of cruel and inhumane "people." Therefore, it makes sense as to why you would disagree with a/r's activists. And it continues to make sense that you contribute to the atrocities in society.

Posted by: Ariel | August 7, 2007 09:39 AM

Has anyone seen the newest gross Burger King commercial with Homer Simpson? It shows this new Whopper, saying "double the meat, double the processed cheese, double the bacon, double mmmmm". How about double the heart attack risk or double the chances of obesity, double cholesterol, or just double barf!!! Is the backlash against vegetarianism and healthy eating so strong that they have to basically say "oh yeah? you want people to stop eating meat? well, just for that we're going to eat twice as much meat" ????? Happy clogged arteries to all of you "proud" meat eaters out there...

Tmax, the connection between peace and vegetarianism is that people who are compassionate towards animals are less likely to be the kind of people who start wars, because they are most likely compassionate towards people as well as animals. Also, we are not saying that pigs, chickens and dogs are identical, just that they are all animals who deserve to live a life free from cruelty by supposedly intelligent human beings.

Posted by: Michele | August 7, 2007 10:24 AM

Keep the faith, Selena. Your family will come around eventually. I made fun of my sister for two years after she became a vegetarian. Then I changed my outlook and became one myself.

Posted by: Mark | August 7, 2007 01:01 PM

to Joe Kinn and tmax:
It is indeed very frustrating to see again and again some micro-brain-intruders on the blogs who don't understand anything about the animals, the world and it's people and are - nevertheless always trying to let their negative traces behind them. like this, this blog remains always in its 'children shoes' instead of growing also in a scientific way! too bad, indeed!!!

Posted by: Black Cat | August 7, 2007 01:13 PM

i love the idea like people dont even know how important this really is. maybe since pigs and chickens arent popular pets they think its okay to eat them but to tell you the truth ......its never okayy

love the comparison
kateee

Posted by: kateee | August 7, 2007 02:04 PM

Ummm..question to some of the uneducated...You guys say God didnt want this and that, but God sent down quail (bird) for the people of Isreal when they were in the wilderness. Its like you guys dont read the bible you just skim through the parts you like lol...Also, Pink, one of your biggest supporters quotes "who are we to think we are smarter than animals?"...Well, animals eat EACH OTHER everyday...are they uncommpasionate? Should they be put in animal jail?

Jesus went fishing. In the bible so few of you probably believe in or read, he went fishing with his disciples the day he walked on water. No activist is gonna tell me what they do is better than what Jesus did, get off your high horse...

PS. Healthy commentary, no disrepect intended...

Posted by: Chris | August 7, 2007 02:39 PM

Well said Michelle. And I am doing my part by showing the video narrated by Joaquin Phoenix called Earthlings, I showed it at a library and now I am loaning it to friends and families and turning people to vegetarianism because they are disgusted and appalled with what they see in the video.

Posted by: Margarita | August 7, 2007 05:43 PM

I started out as a vegetarian because of health reasons...I coudn't stand the idea of ingesting all the hormones and antibiotics that are put into meat to make more money faster for the meat industry. But as the years have gone by, I have realized and seen that vegetarianism is a very peaceful way of life, and I can't imagine being any other way. I am appalled at the atrocities that are inflicted on animals in the name of food....
By the way...Joe Kinn..you seem full of hate yourself, and you need to learn how to spell..or type....

Posted by: Jeanne Richardson | August 7, 2007 05:43 PM

WHAT IF YOU WOULD EAT YOUR DOG?

Posted by: Lee Terwilliger | August 7, 2007 06:16 PM

Maybe you should retitle it....
If you wouldn't eat A dog or cat...???

or

The way in which we choose the animals we eat is the same way Bush chooses what country to invade.
Americas Foreign policy.
Human Diet Foreign policy.

Posted by: Philip | August 7, 2007 07:43 PM

I love and respect all animals. In fact, I like animals more than humans and sometimes I feel ashamed to be apart of the human race. It sickens me when I hear about cruelty and what angers me the most is the over-consumption of meat. Big, obese people eating triple patty burgers.....disgusting!! An animal had to die for their glutony.

Posted by: Karen in bc | August 7, 2007 11:23 PM

I don't ever remember Lions eating Humans on a daily basis. Except maybe in greek arena's when lions were fed christians.......But I really don't think that was the lion's fault. And it really sounds like you're putting the lion down when you say "I have always wondered why we portrait kings as lions and vice versa? After all - lLions used to eat us on a daily basis not too long ago?" so what, the lion doesn't get any respect from you? Lions are animals too. And about people torturing livestock, there are plenty of farms and people that love their animals and treat them so.

Posted by: UmmNoThanks | August 8, 2007 12:17 AM

It's really lovely to see that there are many altruistic people in this world.

I recently became a vegitarian and I'm sad for all the years that I wasted deluding myself that I loved animals while I was happily eating them.

We shouldn't argue about whether or not vegitarians are better human beings than their counterparts.

All people have the potential to reach Enlightenment if we are gentle and tolerant towards them. Being judgemental makes people become more stubbornly attached to their stance. Let's try to help them see the light too :)

For the animals' sake.

Posted by: Ann T. | August 8, 2007 12:33 AM

the bambi effect.....

letting emotions blow perception out
of proportion about animal death.

people, especially at this blog, are way too emotional about anything cute

if animals are so sacred, how come they get to eat each other?

dog food? how many peta members are pet owners and talk about their 'precious babies', when they feed them commercial food. (dogs and cats are not vegetarians) and dog food has meat (bi-product, at least).

I too have a pet (golden retriever), but I also hunt, and I guess this gives me a unique perspective. life is taken within nature, and humans, as members of the earth, also have that power. animals are ours to be used, but not abused. eaten and respected. that is why steak and puppies can exist in the same house. cattle live a short, but relatively easy life. it is a noble thing to provide venison as a meal, as the animal was (if done right) taken without pain, and celebrated for its sacrfice.

p.s.....
people will (and have) eat their pets to survive,

Posted by: edman | August 8, 2007 01:19 AM

I am in the truest sense of the word, an animal lover. I have several dogs. I used to take care of a cat. And a snake too, before my dad overfed it with 2 rats on the same night.

I also love to eat. I eat pig, cow, buffalo, duck, chicken, turkey. Hell, my daily lunch consists of 2 boiled duck embryos. Oh, and I absolutely adore mutton.

And I've also eaten dog. And I can honestly say that I didn't feel a pang of guilt as the meat slid down my gullet. In fact, I still go through my daily routine of attending to and feeding my own dogs.

In fact, If ever I decline to eat dog in the future, it'll be because the flesh tastes, well for lack of a better term, grainy.

We personify animals because of their behaviors and expressions, which are vaguely human. But this doesn't change the fact that they're not. They're animals, who by the way know how to kill other animals more inhumanely than we ever could.

Kinda reminds me of the amount of violence some animal rights protesters give OTHER human beings, while calling for the HUMANE treatment of animals. Irony, really.

Posted by: Dogeater | August 8, 2007 03:01 AM

Shadowfax~
Sorry you're wrong. Pigs prefer mud. Why? It's part of their natural instincts to root and waddle in mud. Mud actually does a better job of cooling them off and in addition, protects their sensitive skin from sunburns. We (humanely) raise pigs and it gets very hot in the summer. I provide them with kiddie pools. They roll in the pool for a while but eventually they dump it over and make mud.

Posted by: Kathy | August 8, 2007 03:25 AM

Why are people allowed to keep animals such as dogs & cats in captivity?

Posted by: Mark S | August 8, 2007 09:20 AM

to Chris:
if you reed the bible very slowly you shall remark that God sent them quails just because they were not content with manna and He angrily said: You shall have meat until it's evacuating from your ears! sending the quails was actually a punishment with severe consequences - continue reading!

The fact that Jesus went out fishing with His future disciples was clear: there was no other choice for to make them 'fishers of men'! in some way He had to catch them! furthermore the fish has a symbolic meaning for several different things in the Bible! for this the evangelic churches removed the chapter 'Tobit' from the Bible because they didn't get the meaning of the putrified fish! but removing something is no solution - but studying it! ok?

Posted by: freedom for animals | August 8, 2007 11:00 AM

kathy, thanks for backing my thoughts up. Do you raise free range pigs?

Posted by: rojo | August 8, 2007 11:06 AM

As for the connection between vegetarianism and peace, I am just not so sure about that. I have many vegetarian friends, many of whom have angry personalities, especially when defending their vegetarian/vegan views. Not to say that they should not be angry at a world which squashes their beliefs, but I think it is very unfair to say that these particular people are more compassionate towards human life, because they feel strongly about animals. I myself think people are a product of their environment and being more compassionate in nature does not necessarily trend towards vegetariansim. There are millions of compassionate people in this world, vegetarian or not, that animal activists can overlook or accuse because of one aspect of their life (what they eat). I personally am vegetarian because it feels good for me, but I will not judge others in this regard because that really is none of my business. And anyway, in my personal experience, most of the vegetarians I know started it because of their friends or because they wanted needed attention from their families. Doesnt sound very compassionate to me. But I also believe in a means to and end, so I cant say Im not glad they are vegetarian.

Posted by: Vishal | August 8, 2007 11:12 AM

i just have a question to ask the great people who say they are for the prevention of cruelty to animals. What the hell makes you think that animals OF ALL KINDS aren't meant to be eaten? its called NATURE. lions eat antelopes, and rabbits and other animals and bugs eat bugs and alligators eat all kinds of animals. yes they EAT ANIMALS. so whyis it so bad for humans to also EAT ANIMALS? i understand and i am all for not experimenting with animals and no cruelty to animals such as forced fighting and unhealthy living conditions for animals but lets be serious here. GOD yes GOD created meat for consumption. If its by the earth, by animals of anykind including humans or bugs. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!!There is no way you can tell me that anyone who is for Peta or who is against eating animals because its cruel, believes in Jesus or God. im open for discussion.... (please excuse all typos and spelling errors)

Posted by: K | August 8, 2007 11:14 AM

What gives people like Dogeater the right to procreate?? Yikes! There's a serial killer in the making...

Posted by: Michele | August 8, 2007 12:13 PM

DOGEATER, Here's some "irony" for you: you start out by saying that you are "...in the truest sense, and animal lover." Then you go on to say that you don't feel any guilt about eating animals. Further down the line, you indicate that some animal activist protesters are violent against humans. However,you said nothing to indicate that the protesters have ever slaughtered any humans or animals, which slaughtering is violence to the extreme...let alone heartless...yet, you don't oppose the violent slaughterers who impose agony on the animals and feel intense pain.

Just for the record to all who think otherwise, animals attack each other out of instinct. It is not a thought-out process like humans have when they attack. Animals can't distinguish between humane and inhumane...but SOME humans can, like animal activists.
Animals eat prey because that is the natural order of the animal kingdom. So it follows suit that dogs are omnivores and cats are carnivores...and their nutritional needs require the same needs as those in the wild...therefore, it is (unfortunately) necessary to provide them with a diet that fulfills their natural needs.
IF mankind was meant to eat animals/meat, we would have long canine teeth in order to tear apart our prey like the animals do.
Finally, ever hear this TRUE story: a man made a bet with another man. The first man said that people were meant to eat animals. The second man said to him: "I'll buy you a brand new car if you can prove this to me: if you put a rabbit and an apple in front of a hungry child, which would the child eat and which would the child prefer to play with?"

Posted by: Ariel | August 8, 2007 12:19 PM

P.S. You go, Selena! Come on these blogs anytime when you want to be heard; there are many, many people here who agree with your viewpoints. And to all of you on this particular blog who are putting down animal advocacy, just read Selena's post again and just maybe you'll learn something new.

Posted by: Susannah | August 8, 2007 12:46 PM

Another p.s., this one re:
Joe Kinn
Tmax
Mitur Baniderty
Chris
Edman
Dogeater

On every website I've ever visited where a particular interest or group is represented, there are always people who come on just to bust on the others.
This was even true when my husband was dying of pancreatic cancer and I would go to an online support group to get advice. There were people, even there, who would come on just to bait the others and stir up controversy. All I can say is that those people needed attention much more than I ever did.

To edman: "animals are ours to be used"? The old Dominion debate, huh? Look up the word dominion. It's about stewardship and taking RESPONSIBILITY for the animals, not killing and eating them. Queen Elizabeth has dominion over her subjects,for instance, but that doesn't give her the right to eat them, experiment on them, hunt them, or wear them.
In fact the only specific reference to what we should eat in the Bible is the one about God giving us the plants of the fields to sustain us,"and that shall be your meat".
As for the "nobility" of hunting - an old, OLD argument, and a very tired one, at that - there is NOTHING noble about tracking down a defenseless animal and killing it,especially not as a "trophy". You are NOT Hemingway, so get over it, and Hemingway was more talk than action, anyway (he was a writer, not a safari guide). The "canned shoots" of today are particularly pathetic, the playpens of usually rich but bored and insecure people who need to feel BIG.
And then, there's the old dog food argument, the one meant to shut the vegans up when all else fails, right up there with "what are your shoes made of?" (Mine are microfiber or canvas, thank you.) Dogs ARE carnivores, yes, but PEOPLE'S teeth are differnt than a canine's teeth. Ours are the teeth of HERBIVORES, and we were meant to eat accordingly. Maybe it is necessary for dogs to eat meat(although there ARE good vegetarian dog foods out there) but people don't have that excuse, unless they're Inuits who could have a problem raising plants on the icebergs.

To Joe Kinn, I can only say...HUH? Maybe Rehab?

As for the rest of you, mentioned above, some of you have been on these blogs before, which can only lead me to believe that there's SOMETHING here that appeals to you, something that keeps you coming back to PETAville and maybe, even, sounds like there just might be something to it? Instead of just bashing PETA members, why not try the vegetarian starter kit and see what you think? It won't hurt you and you might be surprised at how easy and delicious it is to eat the way humans were meant to eat.

Posted by: Susannah | August 8, 2007 02:15 PM

I like it. It gets people to think on how one can not lable animals as they wish. That there is no difference between pets and the wild. It will open up a lot of peoples eyes!

Posted by: Sarah | August 8, 2007 06:00 PM

K (8-4-07 @11:14)
1. We don't think of ourselves as "great," as you mentioned. Such thinking is self-centered, and self-centered people can't think of anyone else or anything else but themselves.
2. We are not the SPCA, ("P" for "prevention.") This org. is PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. (at any time)
3. Not everyone is a believer in this world, whether they are with PETA or not.
4. IF you are a believer, especially of the Chrisitan Faith, then what are your thoughts about St. Francis of Assisi, the patron saint of animals and the environment, who believed that animals are our brothers and sisters, and he preached the Gospel to them...because he believed that we are all created by the same God, who gave all of us His same breath of life. ONLY God can give life; and ONLY God SHOULD BE the only One to take it away. Just some FYI, inclusive of ALL of his beliefs, Francis was the first to be canonized a saint in the shortest time period, being two years after his death. He is also considered to be "the" greatest saint, the most Christ-like.
5. I really don't think that you are "open for discussion" OR I should say, want your questions answered. You have already expressed solid conclusions at which you arrived. Nevertheless, giving you the benefit of my doubt, there are plenty of enlightening comments on here that would answer your questions and more, with foundation and credibility.
6. What is so wrong about eating meat, you asked? The answer healthwise: high cholesterol level/clogged arteries/stroke/cardiac by-pass surgery; fatal heart attack.
My own opinion: NO ONE is forcing you or anybody to abstain from eating meat. We present the factual issues, then it's your decision.

Posted by: Ariel | August 8, 2007 06:12 PM

time out..

just because I dont agree with a statement someone else made, i am automatically labeled as an (in a nicer way, and less time consuming way) idiot? I respect your rights to voice opinions. Never once did I attack the poster, however it seems that in my comment, since I disagree with your views, I am personally attacked. The only person who actually responded to my comment in a rational sense was michele and I applaud you for that.
It seems that no matter what a view is, members of said board do not want contracting views. Its a shame to shut out different insights. I did not come here looking to pick a fight. I actually came hoping to find some conversation on a subject in spare time. However, it seems as if I am attacked for disagreeing with a view of Vegan lifestyle = world peace.
For Susannah and her husband that had cancer, I am sorry there was such disrespect pointed toward you and your family.
Again, just because I disagree with the views of eating animals as part of my diet, dont attack me. You dont know who I am, or the accomplishments I have in my life. There should be some respect reserved for the people who offer a peaceful counter-point to your argument.

Posted by: tmax | August 8, 2007 10:07 PM

You people are all fucking idiots.

Posted by: Randi | August 8, 2007 10:12 PM

DEAR K, ANIMALS IN THE WILD GO ON INSTINT,AND THIS ALONE IS HOW THEY LIVE THEIR LIVES.WE ARE EDUCATED ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT EVERY SPECIES OF ANIMAL ALL SHARE SIMILAR EMOTIONS.FEAR,PAIN,LOVE.ALSO INTELLIGENCE THAT MANY NARROW MINDED PEOPLE CHOOSE TO IGNORE.I BELEIVE IN GOD.ALSO THE FACT THAT ALL OF THE LIVING POSSESS A SOUL.I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF SUPPIOR,RATHER EQUAL.PERHAPS EVEN THE PROTECTING ONE FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT VOICE WORDS.WHO WOULD CHOOSE TO WITHSTAND LIFE ON FACTORY FARMS,ONLY TO BE SLAUGHTED BY SELFISH HUMANS.THOSE WHO ONLY THINK IN TERMS OF TASTY BURGER.NOT A VIRTUE IN ANYONE.TRUST ME.

Posted by: KATERS | August 8, 2007 10:47 PM

for your information susannah the human teeth and digestive system were designed to digest BOTH plants AND MEAT and in such humans are omnivores and though some are content to live on just meat it is unfair to push your will and beliefs on others while they let you alone please listen for no one disputes your right to be a vegatarian or your right to speak out against the verry real problem of animal cruelty but other people also have the right to live their life the way they wish without harrasment from people who live and belive on different ethics and morals

Posted by: cody | August 9, 2007 01:51 AM

Ummmm the reason i eat pigs and not dogs is because my dog is my pet dumbass and it probably doesnt taste good

pretty simple answer for a simple question if you ask me

Posted by: Roger Delta | August 9, 2007 02:26 AM

to tmax:
just a moment please: in your statement you clearly said that wars were not fought over burgers and steaks! this means that you are convinced that meat eating has nothing to do with violence: here, my dear tmax you are really wrong and uninformed: there is a very close link between the two! Before the start of every big war there were massive animal abuses going on! I can't go into detail here but if you are interested - reply and I shall write about it!

But now I give you a riddle: you know where the female torturer of Abu Graib worked before? Check it out!!!!

Posted by: Black Cat | August 9, 2007 09:11 AM

TMAX and CODY, I really don't understand why you (and some others) are under the impresson that this is a debate forum and that we are pushing our beliefs on you. This is an animal rights' activist w/s to which you are welcome, but meanwhile, you are debating or trying to push your beliefs on us. You give your comments on here about your choices, then you resent or challenge our comments that present our beliefs and why we believe in them.
If anybody is pushing their beliefs on everybody big time, particularly concerning eating meat, I would think more along the lines of tv ads about the fast-food chains and other highly meat-related restaurants.
I think of the a/r's comments on here as being educational, which are based on facts...while others comment on why they arrived at becoming vegans/vegetarians. Anyway, we merely present our beliefs and are not looking to be "converted." We have already gained the in-depth knowledge about the whole animal/meat issues, and because of that, we have established firm, irreversible convictions. You are the ones who have made the decision to come on this w/s and read our comments. Therefore, we did not force you, so how could we be accused of pushing our wills and beliefs on you?

Posted by: Ariel | August 9, 2007 10:26 AM

Hey tmax, I just wanted to say that you are very welcome here. Especially after the heightened interest in PETA's work following the Michael Vick case, there have been a lot of people coming on here simply to spew hatred (no rational argument at all, just a lot of cussing in all-caps as far as I can see), so there's an understandable amount of frustration.

But I wouldn't want you to think you're being lumped in with those people. It's always great to see intelligent discussion of the issues from both sides, and I hope you'll continue to participate.

-Jack

Posted by: Jack | August 9, 2007 11:04 AM

to: tmax
Many thanks for your sympathy, and I didn't mean to come off as attacking you or anyone else, As far as I'm concerned ALL are welcome and I like a lively discussion and don't feel that everyone has to agree with me.
to Cody: I would never knowingly push my beliefs on anyone else, but if it felt that way to you, then I'm sorry for it. Please stay and debate with us anytime, but this IS an animal advocate/animal rights organization, so don't be surprised if people don't necessarily agree with your point of view. I would fight to the death for your right to express same, though.
Peace - Susannah

Posted by: Susannah | August 9, 2007 11:55 AM

Excessive meat also causes constipation, witness all of the remedies on the shelves of your local pharmacy promising instant relief. I have seen many people at hospitals with severe constipation because of a lack of vegetables and fruits in their respective diets. These remedies in pharmacies make billions off of the misery of constipated individuals; and being that the American diet is meat-based (for all 3 meals) it is certainly a lucrative business. Digesting meat is taxing on the intestines; even many doctors have admitted that to me.
Dr. Spock, the late pediatrician, who was a well-respected authority on the well-being of children, promoted a vegetarian/vegan diet for children in his final book. He was particularly careful to point out how detrimental milk is for children.

Posted by: Ana | August 9, 2007 06:51 PM

Ana, just so mothers aren't confused, breast milk is the best thing they can do for their children. I know you mean cows milk, which can cause problems in lactose intolerant people.

If kids aren't allowed to drink cows milk, please make sure the diet makes up for the calcium shortfall, and remember to allow for the difference in absorption.(calcium in milk is more readily absorbed compared to calcium in vegetables)

Posted by: rojo | August 9, 2007 08:44 PM

Black Kat.
Im saying that wars are not solely based on animals and/or the way they are consumed or not consumed. Its unfair and incorrect to base the declaration and act of war on animal abuse. I work with animals everyday. I love animals, however, every major conflict in our history is not a mirrored outcome of animal cruelty.
It maybe a shock to you, but I do eat meat, but at the same time I do believe there are actions that are taken in this world that are totally unfair to the animal kingdom. Does that make me a hypocrite? No. Does that make me a poser. No. That makes me a conscious person who makes a choice to eat meat, but care for animals at the same time. It is possible. Same way that it is possible to grow a garden, eat it, and still care for the ecosystem.
Back to my original point, I think its unfair to American Soldiers, some who happen to be family and very close friends who have fought and died in previous wars, to say they went to war because of animal cruelty and because of someones diet. Its comparable to saying that Johnny slapped Billy because he twitched his nose whenever the teacher said a verb.
Furthermore, as far as my intelligence and "knowing anything" goes, I will be glad to answer any questions about anything to suit any derogatory accusations towards myself. Im not trying to pick a fight, Im not claiming this is a debate, but it is a public forum and Im discussing the topic at hand.

Posted by: tmax | August 9, 2007 10:30 PM

For those who argue that God "gave us animals to eat", that "Jesus was a fisherman", and that "animals eat other animals", please consider this: Did God put these animals in factory farms, to be held practically immobile for their entire lives and in filthy conditions? No, people had to hunt them, while the animal lived a natural life. Did Jesus trawl for his fish with a huge net that indiscriminately destroyed all fish life and aquatic vegetation in it's path, destroying marine ecosytems beyond recognition? No, he used a small net cast off of his row boat. And do wild animals kill way more than what they need to eat, wasting the lives of their prey? No, they kill and eat what they need in order to survive. THIS is why I am a vegetarian. Factory farming is unconscionable, and the way we have overfished our oceans until the ecosystems are on the verge of collapse (or have already collapsed) is ridiculous.

Posted by: cathy | August 10, 2007 09:30 AM

Ann T. You are soooo correct. Might I also add that God gave us dominion over the Earth and all its creatures. IMO, it means we are welcome to use animals for our survival, but not to abuse. You're right - people have eaten their pets to avoid starvation. I know because my mother grew up very poor and out of despiration for food, they ended up having to eat the dog.

Posted by: Kathy | August 15, 2007 12:02 PM

Factory farming is indeed cruel and I don't believe in it. However I eat meat. I love meat. Meat is healthy -- in moderation. Fruits and vegetables along with meat is what makes a healthy diet.

Yep - eating at McDonalds everyday is a recipe for a heart attack but properly prepared and eaten in moderation is good.

I buy my meat from kid's FFA and 4-H projects. The animals are raised without antibiotics and hormones - not to mention that these animals lived a life of luxury - pampered to no end -the best feed, best veterinary care, opportunities for socialization, plenty of water and sunshine and --- if it's too hot outside - they have a personal fan and perhaps a kiddie pool to roll in.

I like meat, but I would much rather take from an animal that was treated humanely.

Posted by: Kathy | August 15, 2007 12:22 PM

Kathy, the key word in your post is "lived". These cattle sure didn't get pampered when they were being slaughtered. I would not call it "luxury" knowing that these cattle will have a life expectancy that is just a fraction of what they would have if they were not killed for our consumption. And more and more research is showing that eating meat is not a healthier option. Oh well, I am sure you will somehow continue to justify eating meat.

Posted by: Michele | August 15, 2007 06:29 PM

Dear freedom for animals,

In response to your question: "Do you raise free-range pigs?"

We raise show hogs. My son shows hogs (BTW, goats as well). Believe you me, these animals are more pampered than many pet dogs and cats.

They recieve plenty of exercise and socialization, top quality feed, a personal fan (hay or a heat lamp in the winter so they can stay warm), daily belly rubs and ---- since it's getting real hot now - a cool bath three times a day. Sometimes I put a bag of ice in each pen and they love the ice. Sometimes a kiddie pool filled with water is given to them. Afterall, a happy pig is going to show well.

In addition, medical problems are taken care of immediately. If they cannot be cured, they are put down immediately - never left to suffer a slow death.

No antibiotics. No hormones. No unapproved drugs. If we get lucky at the show, the hog gets auctioned off and most people who purchase these animals do so to help the kids future education. Many times the meat is donated to food banks to feed those less fortunate than us. If our hog gets sifted, we keep it - we end up with a good year supply of pork ---- VERY lean pork - virtually no fat!!! - a is a far cry from what is served at McDonalds or other fast food resturants.

I personally know the business that processes our hogs and they kill them quickly and humanely.

I support PETA but do not agree with every cause. They definitely have their place in supporting the rights of animals. However, I do eat meat but make careful choices about what I eat and where it comes from. Factory farms are just plain wrong. I only eat meat from humanely raised animals.

P.S. A bit of trivia. A pig is called a pig if they weigh 120 pounds or less. Anything above 120 pounds, they are called a hog.

Posted by: Kathy | August 15, 2007 08:29 PM

One more thing. My pigs are castrated WITHOUT anaesthesia. It's done quickly (like circumcising a baby boy.) What most people do not realize is that its the
anaesthesia that ends up killing the pig.

Posted by: Kathy | August 15, 2007 08:51 PM

Dear Kathy:

Yes, I do have something to justify. Livestock are slaughtered at a particular time in their live. These animals are used for meat when they reach a particular weight - called market weight. If they go past that weight, the meat is no good.

I do believe that the research done are on those individual who frequent fast food places and people who buy crap at the supermarket.
That is definitely not a healthy option. I think we can both agree to that part.

Meat is healthy only if its lean and prepared the right way - and eaten in moderation.

Think about it. Fruit is healthy but if you eat too much and you'll end up with the Hershey squirts. Another problem too much fruit can lead to problems involving the hormones that regulate your blood sugar; insulin, glucagon, and growth hormone.

Don't go off defending fruit. I'm just using fruit as an example. Fruit is healthy - so are vegetables and starch. The key to a well balanced diet is simply that - Balanced.

Posted by: Kathy | August 16, 2007 12:49 PM

Shadowfox and Jessica:

You are correct, people do not need another Big Mac or huge portion, but do let me clarify a few thing from someone who is not a vegetarian.

1. One could easily consume a few thousand calories at the salad bar.
2. The only people who consider pigs to be filty are these insane Muslims.

Posted by: Jenny | August 17, 2007 10:24 PM

Selena: No, God does not look down on animals as unworthwhile-but He did constantly require that they be used as a mean of sacrifice in the O.T. Do you view that as torture? Even if you do (and others), God is God. Unquestionable whether we agree with Him or not. Chris: good points- the main one being that SADLY most of you who ATTEMPT to even discuss biblical practices are totally off the mark. God/Jesus being the ultimate authority over ALL creation/creatures means our little opinions and observations really amount to naught. Freedom for animals: it's NOT about reading the Bible SLOWLY(?)-it's about understanding the Word of God. Regardless of whether or not God was angry with the people of Israel for complaining (and He was) IF He had not wanted them to eat MEAT, and IF He had been totally against the human comsumption of meat - He would not have sent down quail! God is God. You advised Chris to keep reading; I would advise you to do the same. God gives a very detailed list of what ANIMALS man could/could not eat, and then Jesus goes on to say in the N.T. that it's not what a mean put into his body (as far as what one eats); it's what comes out (of the heart) that matters. Yes, all that is in the Bible - continue reading!!!Please read it if you're going to use it for support. Jesus had "no other way to make them fishers of men"? You're kidding, right? God! had no other way?! Also, all who are truly Christian do NOT believe in St. Francis or any other! It's God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. That's it. Praying to saints & to Mary is contrary to the Word of God. NO ONE is good enough to be considered a "saint"....Eating meat might not be the BEST choice healthwise-but the bottom line is- it IS a choice! If one has chosen not to, then so be it but it is not wrong for those who do eat it. Just do what you do without trying to make people feel the same way. Being that God gave that choice, which of you is greater than He?

Posted by: payton | September 1, 2007 05:07 AM

Michele: Fair enough, animals will be slaughtered when it is time for them to go into the food industry.

But, the animal wouldn't have existed in the first place, they are all bred specifically for food production. Whether it's right for us to do this, I don't know. But if many more people decided to become vegetarian (not likely!) then that's an awful lot of animals that will be culled in vain.

Just a thought.

Posted by: Anna | November 23, 2007 11:09 AM

omg....who seriously would eat there dog?? wheather this is china or the usa....dont eat dogs,pigs, cows,turkeys,cats.fish..ect.

Posted by: lexi human | May 11, 2008 06:16 PM