hard to believe a person would whip a horse to death in NYC for collapsing in Central park--was he arrested>

Posted by: mary panos | July 11, 2007 12:53 PM

This carriage horse thing is ridiculous.

It is incredibly dangerous for everyone, slows down traffic, and doesn't belong in a city.

Not to mention, these people don't declare their income (or underreport it) and don't pay proper taxes!

A total scam at our expense

Posted by: kelly | July 11, 2007 02:08 PM

please any other facts that you come accross, please dont hesitate to pass them on.
l am hoping to change the City of Melbournes (Australia) attitude to these poor horses..... our guidlines are so weak & thats all they are guidelines, we have had horses die !!
Leilani

Posted by: leilani | July 12, 2007 01:03 AM

As the owner of the largest fleet of Carriage Horses & Carriages in NYC,its really irrating to have a group of people who are totally uneducated about our industry.Thankfully the general public see things differently,and is proven ,by the increase of rides every yr.What a ridiclous statement displaying cities who don't have carriage rides ''anymore'',when some of these cities NEVER had them to begin with! Guess its not profitable,for these ''organizations'' to mention the cities who are adding carriage rides to their city,cause it is so popular,and in demand by the public.The recent accident,was exactly that,a accident,instead of gloating in the glory of using it against a legal,fully insured business,these ''activists'' should work with the industry,not against it.I realize,this might not be ''accepted'',by the moderator to publish,but this is spoken from somebody who can honestly speak from expierience.

Posted by: Anita Gerami | July 12, 2007 09:06 AM

I'm from New Orleans, we have horse and carriage rides. I've also visited many other cities that have them as well.

I have NEVER been tempted to get into one of the rides. Maybe it's the manure stink... maybe its the irritating owners/drivers (whatever they are) that insist on trying to sell you an overpriced ride on a hot summer day... maybe its because the horses I've seen never look vibrant and healthy, but sickly and thirsty and tired...

Sorry Anita Gerami, it is not my thing. The horses are lined up on the street, most tourists cross the street to avoid the stink. You look down at the water... it's dirty. The horses are in the hot sun... the owners/drivers are under the tree fanning themselves.

I'm sure somewhere in the U.S, there is a carriage horse company that uses a horse that is willing and exicited about going to work everyday even with no pay. Somewhere there is the perfect company that will never have any accidents that hurt humans and the animals.

Posted by: Jaclyn | July 12, 2007 02:41 PM

Anita Gerami, SORRY

I know people involved in your marginal "trade"

You have big problems and you know it!

And the disgusting tax avoidance is widespread, as is the case with most gray-area, disreputable "businesses"

It's up to YOU to clean up your act

It's a disgrace

Posted by: kelly | July 12, 2007 02:50 PM

to anita gerami:
carriage rides are one of the last remains of horse abuse from last centuries. running on asphalt destroys the horses' legs and so you can see many of these poor creatures putting one leg forward - that means they are already ill and feel much pain. when they are lame they are thrown to the butchers for reward. You just speak for carriage rides because you make money with it. But it is not right to stay with death penalty just to avoid the executioner losing his job! People can walk or take a taxi - let the horses in peace; let them free they did really enough during history and stop to profit on animals!

Posted by: Running Wild | July 12, 2007 04:17 PM

anita gerami

what a lot of horse manure you wrote...I need several shovels for that comment...

what you really mean is.....I enjoy making a lot of money $$$ off of the backs of these miserable and mistreated horses....

how about , anita, getting into the business of compassion!!

Posted by: Ana | July 12, 2007 08:05 PM

anita i live in Toronto and every time i visit Manhattan I tell all the carriage drivers that I am soooo proud that my city banned such an evil and cruel practice!!!!! im sorry, but you are scum at the highest level and I shouldn't even be waisting these keystrokes, bad bad person :(

Posted by: doug | July 13, 2007 12:40 PM

i mean really who cares....the horses are inspected and looked at by vets, there not treated cruely and there fed and watered...sorry people but really its a horse

Posted by: Ryan Dolan | July 13, 2007 09:14 PM

ANITA GERAMI, yeah, we're a bunch of "uneducated" people who don't have the slighest clue about head injuries, comas, and injuries in general. The people who sustained injuries and accidents caused through your business, well, they were just making it up to get attention, right?

And those of us who work in the medical field can't tell the difference between an injury and a pile of crap being spewed out, right?

You want to talk about "profits," you're the one who is doing it for the money and don't give a darn about human or animal life. And I think it is YOUR responsiblity to warn the general public about the potential dangers involved. If not, you should be held legally responsible right from the start.

Posted by: Ariel | July 14, 2007 08:25 AM

As well expected,only peta extremists read this website,the normal general public wouldn't bother to see such crap and read lies pumped to them by uneducated ill informed ''donation collectors,who want to use our Carriage Horses to scam as many as possible out of cash!Shame on peta,to feed all these lies,when they never once walked in a stable in nyc,or have been involved with any aspect of our industry! Business increases every yr,plus carriages are now opening in other NYC parks,starting with Prospect Pk in Brookyn,thats what the public obviously demands.Sorry,anti horse people,with business increasing you will see more working horses employed and flourishing !

Posted by: Anita Gerami | July 14, 2007 12:19 PM

Personnaly I lived in New York for 2 years and never once did I want a ride from a horse and carriage. In a world full of cars I believe that the horses have paid their debt to society building America and they ALL should be having a happy wonderful retirement!!!!

Posted by: Carolyn Barnes | July 15, 2007 09:10 AM

ANITA GERAMI, you just don't get it, do you? All you get is the money $$$$.

Only us "extremists read this website" ??? Well, I think it's kind of difficult to hide the eye-witness accounts of the horse-related accidents that were in plain view of the people in NYC, as well as it is difficult to convince the people who were victims of the accidents that it wasn't the cause.

Have to disappoint you again:
1. Not one of us who are against animal cruelty ever made even one penny. We volunteer ourselves for FREE.

2. We are not "anti-horse," as you say. We are anti-cruelty, and use common sense that horses are not for entertainment purposes to drudge on the pavement in all kinds of inclement weather, especially in a big city that is not naturally instinctive to them.
So you will continue to dupe the naive public; you can continue to tell of your lack of knowledge about horses; you can continue to rake in the bucks; and I guess you can continue to sleep at night while the accident victims of your business suffer trauma.

That's brings us to a full conclusion that money means more to you than any species of life.

Posted by: Ariel | July 15, 2007 10:44 AM

ANITA GERAMI,

p.s.: The TRUTH of the matter is, it irritates you because you don't like to hear the TRUTH about the whole issue.

And when it comes to money,you even said it yourself: "...as many as possible out of cash!"...of which you are not being scammed. Your accusation of "scamming" is really reaching.

Posted by: Ariel | July 15, 2007 10:56 AM

anita gerami,
i'm a horse owner since 40 years and i can distinguish an ill horse from one in good health and what i saw with carriage horses specially in greece and spain is really utterly bad. the horses' hoofs are not made for asphalt. i hope you put at least a protection piece between the hoof and the iron, if not i'm sorry to all you a horse abuser!

Posted by: Running Wild | July 15, 2007 02:42 PM

I live in Petrópolis, Rio de Janeiro, Brasil, and here also exist horses pushing carriages for tourists, it is really a cruel and stupid practice, remanescent of the XIX Siecle. Stop with this horrible sacrifice of the poor animals! Miriam

Posted by: Miriam Braschi | July 15, 2007 04:55 PM

GERAMI

Is that the new word--extemists? Because I am opposed to cruelty to horses you consider compassion the acts of an extremist?

BTW, I am well-informed and am highly educated so I am not from the lunatic fringe as you imply in your very silly, transparent and hollow comments. Because I am well-informed I am an advocate for animals. Your position and your premise is based on the $$$$ money that you so enjoy making off of the misery of these horses; my position is based on my love for the horses and of justice. Enough horses have died during wars and as transportation; time to give them a place to live in peace. You would do yourself well by trying to buy with your $$$$ money some integrity.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 15, 2007 05:38 PM

ANITA GERAMI--YOU HAVE IT ALL WRONG--IT IS ANIMAL CRUELTY COMPLETELY--YOUR IGNORANCE, GREED AND LACK OF COMPASSION ARE TRULY AWFUL--AND ALL FOR YOUR PROFIT--DISGRACEFUL

Posted by: mary panos | July 15, 2007 07:21 PM

Too bad William Wilburforce is no longer alive--no doubt he would do something about the cruelty to carriage horses--

Posted by: catherine nicoletti | July 16, 2007 11:18 AM

Pl keep the good work. It is absurd that people give such stupid excuses. Thanks

Posted by: Urmil Dhanda | July 16, 2007 07:00 PM

Whenever one is considering the credibility of a statement or opinion, always question the person's motivation.

PETA does not have any financial interest in convincing people to go vegetarian or to stop using products that are tested on animals. They do not get more money, or more awards, or an increase in a stock value by putting an end to the running of the bulls or by convincing a city to outlaw cruel practices such as horse carriage rides.

BUT, someone like Anita Gerami sure has a vested interest in defending her "profession", by putting forth pathetic excuses and explanations to support her financial worth.

What is the bottom line? Anita Gerami loses big-time $$$ if more people realize how these horses are being abused.

Where I live in the touristy part of downtown Ottawa (Canada) we have what are called "Rickshaw" rides, where people (very athletic ones at that) pull a small 2-person cart around the area, showing tourists that part of town. If one is in excellent cardiac shape, it would probably not be an impossibly demanding job, because the carts are quite light, but the point is that the people pulling the carts have the choice to be there or not.

Anita Gerami and others' horses would surely much rather be running carefree around a meadow, munching on grass whenever they wanted, instead of being forced to run around on hard pavement and to breathe in the noxious fumes of the city's vehicles.

Posted by: Michele | July 16, 2007 11:48 PM

My answering this website is only to try to touch those people who have yet to be contaminated by phony organizations,to generate some ''donations''.Horse dran carriages services are opening up more and more,because they enjoy riding in a horse& carriage.NYC has more licenses to and inspections to operate more than any other city.Stable staff works 24 hrs in all stables to assure the comfort and safety of the horses.The ASPCA& Health Dept regularly inspect the stables and conduct street inspections.There is so much bitterness and rage thru all the posts that go off the subject and are purely made by assumptions,makes me wonder if the only reason they are angry is a lack of something in their own lonely lives.

Posted by: Anita Gerami | July 17, 2007 10:46 AM

Anita, I am a certified veterinary nurse so maybe you will listen to me.

I agree that PETA is way more negative and harsh than is appropriate. Hopefully they are trying to change that, because their ultimate goal is to make life better for the horses that I'm sure are very loved and precious to you.

As a professional I must comment that riding horses on pavement cannot possibly be good for their legs. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. Breathing in car fumes is also bad for any animal with lungs. That's also a scientific fact. And there's at least some fumes in NYC, wouldn't you agree?

New York City is a very very dangerous place to drive, even when wrapped in a car with all the latest safety features. Even though people are forced to drive slowly, there are still thousands of accidents each year.

Being forced to endure these conditions IS dangerous and cruel to horses, as is proven by your own statement. The ASPCA is understaffed as it is. If they are inspecting your facility on a regular basis, there must have been reason to worry about the horse's health, otherwise they would not be farming out their resources so often.

Please educate yourself on the hazards to your horses, and maybe you can be a hero and make life better for these animals since you know a lot about the profession.

Posted by: Maya | July 18, 2007 01:52 PM

Maya,As a long time Business Owner of the largest fleet of horse &carriages in NYC,and the largest collection of antique coaches & carriages on the east coast,my opinion is the opposite of your views.I see the fact,that we employ many Draft horses who would face a horrible fate at the slaughterhouse if they didn't have a job.A horse that weighs 2000 lbs,pulling a carriage on roller bearing wheels that are 800-900 lbs,on level ground is not considered even light excercise my Teamsters who use their horses for farm work.Read Rural Heritage magazine,a horse can easily pull twice his weight,deadweight,not even on wheels.As for their health in the city,they are specially shod with shoes to protect their feet,just like the police horses.The Vet that oversees most these horses is the City's vet that cares for the Mounted Police Horses too.As for fumes,horses are above the direct tailpipes,not the like the thousands of dogs that use our city streets.There as been no evidence that horses respitory is endangered anymore than humans,dogs,cats or any other being in nyc.My family & i are very proud to operate a carriage service based in NYC,and love each day we can walk in our own stable and enjoy our horses,be it to drive them in Central PK,take them to a movie job,or ride a bride in our Cinderella Coach to Church on her Wedding Day.

Posted by: Anita Gerami | July 21, 2007 12:30 PM

Anita,

Thank you for your response. I would never want to accuse anyone of something not backed up by science.

I hear you about the specially fitted shoes, but I'm curious about what pavement does to a horse's legs. Isn't it damaging to their leg bones?

Also I'm still sure that a crowded city is kind of a risky place for a horse and carriage.

I understand what your opinion is, but I base my posts on science, not opinion. I want to see science prevail, so I have no problem with admitting if you are right and I am wrong.

Therefore I would like to see a (neutral) veterinarian's opinion on this sometime.

Peace, Maya

Posted by: Maya | July 22, 2007 11:28 PM

Maya,i thank you for being 1 of the few writers on this website who is polite and rational.We use the very same streets as the Mounted Police Horses,who i seem to never hear a complaint on these horses.Some are cared for by the same Vet who treats both Carriage & Police Horses.There are NYC Police Officers who drive and even own carriage horses,we are a very profesional group of horse owners,if if for 1 second our horses health would be in danger we would not be here.WE do what we do because we love working with horses,and to havea profession thats a piece of the past is even a better reason for driving our horses.As any sport,risk and injury are a possibilty,race horses,police horses,show horses,can get get injured as well,however,races go on daily,shows continue to be performed and patrol horses work the city streets too.For 68 horses working daily and nightly every night,the satistic of accidents are very low,its just that they are media frenzy when it occurs.We own horses for many yrs,that are still working,and are very healthy and sound,and they seem to enjoy what they do.If horses are tried and don't adapt to their job,they are turned back to their original owners or are given to horse rescues for rehoming.

Posted by: Anita Gerami | July 23, 2007 06:10 PM

As the klargest fleet owner of nyc,i feel compelled to differ in opinion.Our horses earn our living,and they are licensed insured and well cared for.The up keep of keeping 20+ horses in nyc is very expensive,we go up and beyond what we ''have to do by law'',we have a equine dentist come in regularly and have our shoes replaced every 4 weeks,we rotate our horses which is not mandated and yet with the price of fuel and tolls,we happily transpotr our own horses to our own farm.I can understand people who want to see horses well cared for and not abused,myself and my family are the 1st ones to send money to rescues to get horses out of bad situations,and even foster rescue horses at our own farm till they are placed.However working horses are not abused horses,they get constant steady care and have a 24 hr staff at hand at all times.To support the issue of animals in general shouldn't work,then that would have to include showing them ,riding them and pleasure driving them,as anytime a person uses a horse,even though they might consider it a sport or hobby,that horse is ''working'' for them.I truly think the fact that we make good money at using our horses,makes some people jealous & no matter how well we treat our horses.The main issue in the end is we love and respect our animals,and we are Blessed enough to absoulutly enjoy being able to employ and work with all our horses.

Posted by: Anita Gerami | July 30, 2007 12:02 PM

I had lived in N.J. and always visited NYC. thought it was cruel that the horse driven buggies were being abused from the person who owned it. seen horses collapse in the heat or cold. Those people should be locked up. When reading the magazine and seeing this article, it really made me sick.I always donate.

Posted by: Rosemary Locatelli | June 27, 2008 08:02 PM

The PETA magazine said to come to this website to find out how we can help carriage horses. So,tell me, how can we help???

Posted by: Julie | July 22, 2008 07:12 PM