I am really glad you brought up the topic of fish. Many times I have to remind others that fish are not vegetables. Why do people insist on calling themselves vegetarian when they are not? It is not an exclusive club; it is people like me, vegan,who decided, because of ethical reasons, that eating the remains of slaughtered animals is wrong and contributing to their demise is immoral. It also is bothersome when people ask me "You eat fish"? Why have fish been removed from the radar of sentience and compassion? Eating fish not so bad, not to the fish it isn't. They are sentient beings also. Good blog.

Posted by: Ana | June 25, 2007 10:38 AM

Has PETA lost its way? We seem to be attacking one another instead of helping and teaching.Exclusive club???? So if i give up all meat except fish I am not helping in any way? Well I guess that my efforts here are useless.Give all or nothing should be the new topic for this blog!

Posted by: A | June 25, 2007 11:08 AM

I think a lot of vegetarians (or partial-vegetarians) find the transition easier when they eat fish. A lot of people don't eat cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, turtles, ducks... but they do eat the ocassional fish or shrimp. Lets not exclude them and make them feel bad when they are doing so much to help already. As time comes, fish will probably be taken off the menu. Give people a break. Anything you do helps.

And yes, I agree... fish are not swimming vegetables and yes, they are wonderful beings that deserve as much respect as the other animals.

But I think that if we start to get mean and tell people that they can't be called vegetarians, we are really turning people away.

Posted by: Jaclyn | June 25, 2007 11:43 AM

Fish are one of the most beautiful things on this planet. They are very intelligent and both seeing them be eaten and kept in captivity is painful for me.

I do think some understanding is in order here. People who do not like factory farming often turn to fish because unlike cows and pigs, some fish are allowed to live their lives in the wild before being caught and non-motorized fishing does not contribute to global warming.

Many people who only eat wild-caught fish feel as though this is similar to the way a tribal islander would eat "meat" in a minimally harmful way. In a way it is better than factory farming. Howver, it is still harmful to the waterways.

I'm not crazy about aquariums, but the Monterey Bay Aquarium has good information on why fishing is having a seriously bad impact on the world's oceans.

We should point out that motor-powered boats do contribute to global warming, that lead sinkers kill half of the loons that die from manmade causes, that many seabirds die from fishing line wrapping around their intestines, and that many marine animals like swordfish and other endangered animals die from the side-effects of fishing.

Neuroscience has now proven that many parts of the brain previously deemed "useless" are now beleived to have real potential, so that even animals with small brains may have rich emotional lives. I think fish may be far more advanced than previously thought.

Fish are one of my favorite animals and I hope PETA will continue this campaign to stop their horrible suffering from fishing and from being kept captive. ;) Thanks!

Posted by: Maya | June 25, 2007 11:51 AM

Sorry, A, you're not a vegetarian. What if you just ate pork and no other meats? Would you still be insisting that you're vegetarian then? You're MOSTLY vegetarian, sure, and that's really great. You are making a big difference!! But don't please don't pretend that fish doesn't quite count as animals.

And I agree with Maya that people might consider fish consumption differently because supposedly, fish are still allowed to live out their lives naturally before they're caught and eaten. The fact is, though, that fish factory farms do exist (http://www.factoryfarming.com/fish.htm), and moreover, fishing even in the open ocean is a huge detriment to the environment. Bycatch, pollution, etc, are causing crises in the seas. Do some research about it and learn why and how and to what degree. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article675573.ece)

Posted by: Canaduck | June 25, 2007 12:04 PM

I'm tired of people getting put into categories, I am a new vegan and my husband decided to give up all meat but fish, and I am very proud of him since he would never have done that had I not become vegan and he used to be a big meat eater, by giving up most meat he is doing something really helpful for the earth and I am not going to chastise him if he eats fish once in a while.. IMO any change someone makes for the better is a GOOD thing, the all or nothing attitude needs to be disposed of since not many people are going to give up all animal products, but MANY will give up some. Making them feel guilty for not giving up all is going to have the reverse effect and they may give up altogether. Nitpicking is bad, it's sort of like arresting someone for J-walking when a robbery is happening down the street..

Posted by: Erica | June 25, 2007 01:00 PM

Sorry if you found this one offensive A! It certainly wasn't intended to be. Just a gentle reminder that fish have feelings too, not a diatribe against people who still eat fish.

On a personal note -- though I became vegetarian at a young age, I didn't become vegan or stop wearing leather until years later. That doesn't mean that I was a bad person before, but I did appreciate, and ultimately benefited from, receiving a few nudges from people whose opinions I valued towards making even more changes in my life that would help animals.

Like I said, we all do as much as we can, and every little bit that someone does is valuable, but I do believe that it's part of PETA's role to ask us to do even more.

Posted by: Jack | June 25, 2007 01:06 PM

Jack, you know I'm a big PETA critic sometime, and I did not find the post offensive. I felt a bit sad when I read the "scarfing down a tuna melt" comment because I did eat those before I became vegetarian.

I think that fish are very odd animals to most people and demystifying them will make them seem more sentient to people. I actually know people who own fish and cannot bring themselves to eat fish because of it, ironically. To be honest though I find that keeping fish is as bad as eating them.

Erica, good for your husband! I think it's great that he's cut down his comsumption of meat. Please visit the Monterey Bay Aquarium website, they can tell you which fish are more sustainable than others.

Eating eco-friendly fish means less whales and marine animals get killed and less chance of polluting corals and oceans.

http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/seafoodwatch.asp

Let's face it, it's sad that any animal has to die for us, but vegetarianism WILL NOT happen in the next five minutes. If everyone cut down to just a few fish meals a week it's much more likely they will give it up completely.

In the meantime, we must remind people that our oceans are in huge trouble and if ANY of us are to survive we must live compassionately and thoughtfully.

ps The book ENTANGLEMENTS by Tora Johnson is a great book on this subject as well.

Jack, please keep reminding us to treat fish with compassion!!

Posted by: Maya | June 25, 2007 01:24 PM

Canaduck

No need to be sorry. I am a vegetarian. I never stated that I was a meat eater,(notice the use of the word IF in my previous comment) i was simply saying by putting people into categories is not really helping animals and if you only do eat pork YES you are helping other animals. Like I said is it all or nothing when it comes to be a part of PETA now?

Posted by: A | June 25, 2007 03:20 PM

hello A.

Did you read "every small step people take to help animals is important"? Jack was being super nice on this one but you let your guilt make you get all upset. Don't blame Jack. Blame your own guilt for making you feel bad.

Posted by: wtf a | June 25, 2007 05:22 PM

Let's clear something up here: while it may be a good step in the right direction to avoid eating land animals, consuming fish does not make you a vegetarian! Our beef is not that it has to be "all or nothing", but that you shouldn't be calling yourself a vegetarian when you aren't. Vegetarians don't eat animals. Being picky about which animals you eat still makes you an omnivore! It's the abuse of the term that is wrong; it just confuses everyone. I'm personally sick to death of hearing the question "But you eat fish, right?" Sometimes I even get the occasional "You don't eat chicken either?" Ridiculous!

Posted by: Liz | June 25, 2007 05:45 PM

wtf a

it was not address to Jack, it was addressed to canaduck...Read my full comments b4 you decide to be so self righteous please.

Please read my 2nd comment to please Liz or whomever. I DO NOT EAT FISH IT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF DOING ONE THING IS BETTER THAN DOING NOTHING IF YOU PLEASE!

i do not eat fish, any seafood of any kind,nothing with eyes,or a beating heart!!!! Damn thats wrong potatoes have eyes.At least i caught that so you don't have to get all crazy about potatoes having eyes.If i missed any veggies with eyes please comment and let me know.

I am a hortophagos!!!!

Posted by: A | June 25, 2007 07:17 PM

Hey hey hey bloody hell,since we have been debating what a real vegetarian is today, i believe 37 were killed by a suicide bomber today! Peace and respect to all of you! Had to read Washington Post..put things in perspective.
Love all animals and people do what you can!Much respect.

A

Posted by: A | June 25, 2007 07:25 PM

I think there are PETA snobs among you. I am someone toying with the idea of becoming a vegan, but the fact that I still occasionally eat fish and even chicken means I don't belong here. There must be more reasonable people somewhere who respect beginners.

Posted by: oldrnwisr | June 26, 2007 12:59 PM

Fuck you peta, get a life you are a joke. save a child instead of a fucking animal. FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Keith P. | June 26, 2007 01:16 PM

I really think you should reread the post, oldrnwisr. No one's being snobby, but PETA has every right to ask people not to eat fish. It's kind of central to what they do.

"Of course, I totally believe that nobody is perfect, myself included, and that every small step people take to help animals is important."

Posted by: Jonesy | June 26, 2007 02:11 PM

Oldnwisr, you're absolutely right that there are snobs who post here, but I hope that does not discourage you.

You should know that in PETA's FAQs they make it very clear that they have no problem with tribal groups eating meat. PETA is just horrified with the way that farm animals are treated and the cruel way that fish are killed and the ocean polluted, etc.

Of course they care about individual animals too, but they are actually very understanding people. I have dealt with them through emails and they are very kind-hearted.

Please be careful when switching to a vegan or vegetarian diet. Consult a nutritionist or doctor so you don't get sick. We want the good folks like yourself to stick around a long time!

Posted by: Maya | June 26, 2007 02:34 PM

My words exactly oldrnwiser.
"There must be more reasonable people somewhere who respect beginners."

Posted by: maddy | June 26, 2007 02:46 PM

Liz:
Thank you for your post. Exactly my thoughts. And I also am sick of those questions. I applaud your whole post; it makes complete sense and is right on target.

Posted by: Ana | June 26, 2007 05:32 PM

Veg*ns eat veg... piscatorians eat fish (see "pisces" the fish starsign if you don't understand) it's like calling yourself dave if your name is bob! PERSONALLY I believe eating fish is WORSE than eating mammals because fish generally have no laws governing their wellbeing - they die SUFFOCATING or being CRUSHED under the weight of their fellows. Unless you catch the fish yourself and ensure that you kill it quickly I can't believe you understand. I went fishing in my youth and it put me off. I was forced to eat fish when I wanted to be vegetarian by people who didn't understand you can be perfectly healthy without it.
Now I am vegan! So there ARE steps.. but I think those that might "feel guilty" or those that might "feel superior" are here on PETA's website trying to do the same thing - work towards a sustainable future where no animals will die for the sake of taste, fashion or sport.
Now, all you vegetarians... ARE EGGS VEG? ;) just a thought

Posted by: Otherside | June 27, 2007 07:02 AM

Other side,

Pescetarian. Pesco/pollo,
pesce-vegetarians.................
so many titles and so little time.

What came first, the chicken or the egg? If you eat eggs....lacto-ovo vegetarian
(most popular in western world)

I say that being nice, because I told someone I would be kind, seriously though..chicken or egg?

Did you know Darwin was a vegetarian? Bit o random info for ya.

Ohhhh its hard, but i promised..why couldn't I have read this one b4 Ana's asking to be nice..rrrr

Posted by: A | June 28, 2007 02:34 PM

Not a fish post, but a general observation and reply to Jonesy. I would suggest an on-line university nutrition course once you become vegan. I did one and I am so glad! I was assured that I was not slowly killing my family through lack of protein/B12 etc., etc. If you go to a traditional nutritionist they could still try to tell you that you need animal products... When my GP tried to tell me that I needed to eat yogurt for sufficient calcium I just smiled and reminded myself that my one nutrition course was probably one more than she had taken at university. One last point...my dictionary defines vegetarians as "one who only eats vegetables". Enough said.

Posted by: Mel | June 30, 2007 10:46 PM

yall makin me hungary

Posted by: josh | July 6, 2007 05:43 PM

How do we know about the wonderful cognitive capacities of fish? Animal research. Animal rights activists don't seem to make distinctions here either: anyone who is not vegan is evil just like anyone who does animal research. It doesn't matter if it is noninvasive behavioral and designed to improve welfare. All is "animal research". As a vegetarian (not vegan), an animal lover and a person who does behavioral work with animals already in zoos, I was very upset to recently find my research the target of animal rights activists. Why? Because my work involves keeping wild birds with minor, but permanent injuries captive when some people think they should be killed instead. Absurd! This extremism makes enemies of reasonable people. In addition, I was very sympathetic to the medical researchers whose children were threatened in the name of "preventing cruelty". Terrorism is not an appropriate tactic in a democratic society. My posts don't seem to make it past the censor--I dare you to post this one.

Posted by: Me again | August 15, 2007 02:55 AM